Just 2,500 troops. That’s all we have had the past few years in Afghanistan. You would not know that from press coverage. The Biden Administration, with the announcement of its withdrawal, has now had to send in 3,000 troops to help evacuate people. In other words, to reduce to zero,
President Trump drew down our US forces in Afghanistan from 5,000 to 2,500, and was planning a complete withdrawal. I simply believe that he would have done a better job of leaving than Biden has. I cannot understand why our generals would allow sophisticated weaponry to be left there for the Taliban and the Chinese!
In 1991, we essentially obliterated the Iraqi military and freed Kuwait. The doctrine we used, developed by then-Army Chief of Staff and later Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Colin Powell, remembered one thing from the Vietnam experience that we conveniently, and much to our loss, forgot after 9/11; namely that no matter how justified the military action is, the people whom you are freeing HAVE TO WANT WHAT YOU ARE OFFERING. In 1991, The Kuwaitis, the Saudis, the other Gulf Arab states, the UN, NATO , and the US Congress agreed that that obliteration was called for. The late President George H.W. Bush also successfully resisted the temptation to engage the U.S. in an exercise in "nation building", a temptation to which his son fell victim in 2003.
We have now discovered that we have tried, and failed, in a similar exercise in Afghanistan, which like Iraq is far less a coherent nation than it is a colored space on the map. In both places, tribal, ethnic and in Iraq, religious sect affiliations matter far more than do any notion of "nationhood" as we understand it. When I talk with Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, a group which as a retired military vet, I feel comfortable doing, I am struck by a recurring theme among all these men and women, namely that as far as the idea of nationhood goes, neither country has that in their national experience. They also note that any attempt of "nation building" as was proposed by then-President George W. Bush and pursued by President Obama, is truly a fool's errand.
Obama, and later Trump, both talked about withdrawal from both places, but the legacy of the neocons who counseled Bush 41 persisted, and we kept being strung along for another 6 months, or a year, or.... what's different now is that Biden has decided to just leave without any assurance that the present status quo would be maintained. In Iraq, this isn't a problem, as the present Iraqi government seems committed in its own way to making something work. But Afghanistan remains a feudal collection of tribes and city-states, with no hope that any central authority can ever change things. Enter the Taliban, whose vision of Afghanistan, while horrid, remains perversely comfortable to the majority of the people.
The lesson is what Colin Powell could have predicted: One can't build a nation if the people of that nation are unwilling to have it built. We'll just have to live with the prospect of dealing with whatever terror group the Taliban invites in. The Party of Endless War has, sadly, won.
There was a time when I was in Afghanistan so much I was considering purchasing real estate there.
Interesting you mention literacy rates.
During the height of COIN operations led by David Petraeus, it occurred to me to look up literacy rates. I do not recall the exact numbers, but Iraq was maybe 78% and Afghanistan was something like 11%.
How we ever expected to transform such a nation with low literacy into a liberal democracy baffled me.
Neo-conservativism became the prom queen after 9/11. Turns out, she had quite a bit of baggage. Let’s hope herpes was the worst of it.
With all wars, the goal is to win. I haven't seen that since WWII. And, never tell your enemy squat about your intentions! And this country always has gone back and built up the country to better than it was.
Erick, you're probably better able to do a deep dive into the taliban (I'm not giving them proper noun status) than I am, but from what I understand they're recruiting in youth camps starting at a very young age. I've heard young boys under 10 pretend on playgrounds to be suicide bombers. There's appeal to the youth to join the hate-team BECAUSE the alternative is not a nice life. I'm not sure how or IF there's a way to end the cycle. The califate they subscribe to is all or nothing. I believe the people of Afghanistan need to be emboldened to protect, defend, and serve their hope for a better future. The all women's fighting forces over there have the right idea. "If not them, now, then who when?" I have a question though: What is the end result if the taliban control the whole nation of Afghanistan? Who's producing commodities for daily living? How is that rape and pillage lifestyle sustainable? Thanks for covering this someday on a future show, so I won't have to do all the research.
It was a bad idea when Obama signaled it. It was a bad idea when Trump announced it. (Somehow not mentioned in your piece. Shock!). It is a bad idea as Biden is implementing it. We’ll be back. And, it will be much costlier.
"the likelihood there’s going to be the Taliban overrunning everything and owning the whole country is highly unlikely"...what...because they are the JV or something?
Trump "negotiated" the surrender; Biden is incompetently carrying it out. Yes we should probably leave Afghanistan but let's not fool ourselves. There will be a bloodbath and a humanitarian nightmare that we are (at least indirectly) responsible for. The Taliban is a completely and totally insane pack of murderers. Once we get in to these hell holes it is very hard to get out.
I think this country should be done with Nation Building. And I think invading Afghanistan and staying was a horrible error. We had the opportunity to learn from history (Soviet Union/Afghanistan) and chose not to do so.
There will always be a 'safe haven' somewhere for terrorist to plot and plan. No, we hit them very hard and we get out.
I do feel for the Afghan people, who have been free of this scourge. Especially the women. Especially the young women. They will be subjugated to a primal life, with very little to be optimistic about.
But no more bloodshed like this. We paid way too high of a price only to watch this fall back into the same scum that was there before. Let's not let history repeat itself again.
President Trump drew down our US forces in Afghanistan from 5,000 to 2,500, and was planning a complete withdrawal. I simply believe that he would have done a better job of leaving than Biden has. I cannot understand why our generals would allow sophisticated weaponry to be left there for the Taliban and the Chinese!
In 1991, we essentially obliterated the Iraqi military and freed Kuwait. The doctrine we used, developed by then-Army Chief of Staff and later Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Colin Powell, remembered one thing from the Vietnam experience that we conveniently, and much to our loss, forgot after 9/11; namely that no matter how justified the military action is, the people whom you are freeing HAVE TO WANT WHAT YOU ARE OFFERING. In 1991, The Kuwaitis, the Saudis, the other Gulf Arab states, the UN, NATO , and the US Congress agreed that that obliteration was called for. The late President George H.W. Bush also successfully resisted the temptation to engage the U.S. in an exercise in "nation building", a temptation to which his son fell victim in 2003.
We have now discovered that we have tried, and failed, in a similar exercise in Afghanistan, which like Iraq is far less a coherent nation than it is a colored space on the map. In both places, tribal, ethnic and in Iraq, religious sect affiliations matter far more than do any notion of "nationhood" as we understand it. When I talk with Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, a group which as a retired military vet, I feel comfortable doing, I am struck by a recurring theme among all these men and women, namely that as far as the idea of nationhood goes, neither country has that in their national experience. They also note that any attempt of "nation building" as was proposed by then-President George W. Bush and pursued by President Obama, is truly a fool's errand.
Obama, and later Trump, both talked about withdrawal from both places, but the legacy of the neocons who counseled Bush 41 persisted, and we kept being strung along for another 6 months, or a year, or.... what's different now is that Biden has decided to just leave without any assurance that the present status quo would be maintained. In Iraq, this isn't a problem, as the present Iraqi government seems committed in its own way to making something work. But Afghanistan remains a feudal collection of tribes and city-states, with no hope that any central authority can ever change things. Enter the Taliban, whose vision of Afghanistan, while horrid, remains perversely comfortable to the majority of the people.
The lesson is what Colin Powell could have predicted: One can't build a nation if the people of that nation are unwilling to have it built. We'll just have to live with the prospect of dealing with whatever terror group the Taliban invites in. The Party of Endless War has, sadly, won.
Biden has always called it wrong. I remember the Carter years. What’s going on right now may be worse.
There was a time when I was in Afghanistan so much I was considering purchasing real estate there.
Interesting you mention literacy rates.
During the height of COIN operations led by David Petraeus, it occurred to me to look up literacy rates. I do not recall the exact numbers, but Iraq was maybe 78% and Afghanistan was something like 11%.
How we ever expected to transform such a nation with low literacy into a liberal democracy baffled me.
Neo-conservativism became the prom queen after 9/11. Turns out, she had quite a bit of baggage. Let’s hope herpes was the worst of it.
Sad but true. The world does not operate like an American corporation. We can't do everything.
There's no shame in saying to the Afghans, "you're on your own." I have a family member who has a role in this withdrawal, and I am proud of him.
I am glad that there is movement in and discussions about getting the translators who helped us i and their families out of Afghanistan.
With all wars, the goal is to win. I haven't seen that since WWII. And, never tell your enemy squat about your intentions! And this country always has gone back and built up the country to better than it was.
Erick, you're probably better able to do a deep dive into the taliban (I'm not giving them proper noun status) than I am, but from what I understand they're recruiting in youth camps starting at a very young age. I've heard young boys under 10 pretend on playgrounds to be suicide bombers. There's appeal to the youth to join the hate-team BECAUSE the alternative is not a nice life. I'm not sure how or IF there's a way to end the cycle. The califate they subscribe to is all or nothing. I believe the people of Afghanistan need to be emboldened to protect, defend, and serve their hope for a better future. The all women's fighting forces over there have the right idea. "If not them, now, then who when?" I have a question though: What is the end result if the taliban control the whole nation of Afghanistan? Who's producing commodities for daily living? How is that rape and pillage lifestyle sustainable? Thanks for covering this someday on a future show, so I won't have to do all the research.
It was a bad idea when Obama signaled it. It was a bad idea when Trump announced it. (Somehow not mentioned in your piece. Shock!). It is a bad idea as Biden is implementing it. We’ll be back. And, it will be much costlier.
"the likelihood there’s going to be the Taliban overrunning everything and owning the whole country is highly unlikely"...what...because they are the JV or something?
Cancer left untreated ALWAYS metastasizes.
Trump "negotiated" the surrender; Biden is incompetently carrying it out. Yes we should probably leave Afghanistan but let's not fool ourselves. There will be a bloodbath and a humanitarian nightmare that we are (at least indirectly) responsible for. The Taliban is a completely and totally insane pack of murderers. Once we get in to these hell holes it is very hard to get out.
I think this country should be done with Nation Building. And I think invading Afghanistan and staying was a horrible error. We had the opportunity to learn from history (Soviet Union/Afghanistan) and chose not to do so.
There will always be a 'safe haven' somewhere for terrorist to plot and plan. No, we hit them very hard and we get out.
I do feel for the Afghan people, who have been free of this scourge. Especially the women. Especially the young women. They will be subjugated to a primal life, with very little to be optimistic about.
But no more bloodshed like this. We paid way too high of a price only to watch this fall back into the same scum that was there before. Let's not let history repeat itself again.
"So the Taliban just waited us out and built up to take it back."
So the Taliban has been able to "Build Back Better"?