I was going to push this out this morning, but in light of the Trump news, that took precedence. Many of my friends are off to New Orleans for the Southern Baptist Convention. I wish to urge them to stick to their long-held convictions and principles.
Agreed. Hopefully nothing else will enter into consideration except what the Scripture states clearly. True biblical love and unity cannot, must not and do not exclude, lessen or ignore the truth. We do not really love or care about anyone or the honor of God if we do not walk in truth even as our Lord Jesus Christ.
I am a woman’s still in the workforce at 68. I teach Sunday School in a Southern Baptist Church. I grew up in Macon,GA. I knew who Christ was and is but didn’t study scripture til late 30’s and fervently in my 40’s.
I visited many denominations and saw the discourse where a woman was pastor.
I won’t say I agree with you on this. I will say I accept scripture, same as you do.
There are many women who live with one another as well. Don't see discussion about that topic. Are they really just roommates with no personal feeling about their roommate?
I so agree! We can’t change what the Bible has written. It will lead down the wrong road. I’m not saying that women wouldn’t do a fantastic job but the Bible said “No”
And aren’t we supposed to hate the sin and love the sinner? Why are women being singled out as the reason that the LGBTQ agenda is getting more play at a church? Who are the most vocal people in the LGBTQ world? Aren’t they men? Who’s getting all the news media attention? Trans men. Where do we hear about sexual misconduct? Men that sit in the pulpit. There’s a whole lot more to this than just making a black-and-white rule.
Oh boy. I agree with you on a lot of things but this, I do not. You have to consider the source which is Paul, who, in several other instances, made misogynistic comments. I don’t think you can equate allowing female pastors to the LGBTQ movement. There are plenty of LGBTQ Baptist parishioners I think you need to rethink this, Erick.
Paul is not the only source on this. The role of the priesthood being male goes back before Aaron, ans probably predates Malcedesic. Don't ask me why God made this choice.
Women are ordained because there aren’t enough men to be Leaders. A local episcopal church recently ordained their deacon as a priest. She is a married lesbian.
Erick, if you take time to view the Steve Deace show (on rumble 6/6/2023), i'd be interested in your take on the series of questions discussed...and whether you think the question of pastoral leadership might also fall into that genre? Other than that, as one who left the UMC 20 years ago for a southern baptist fellowship, i agree with you 'note.'
I have to respectfully disagree with one part of this. I have read several commentaries that discuss the history and culture of the day as well as diving a bit deeper into what was happening at the time for Paul to write this to Timothy. In my mind the women Paul was referring to were not ready to assume a leadership role. They didn’t have the education of scripture that most men of that time had and therefore were not prepared to teach. Their lack of education caused them to fall victim to false teachings because they didn’t know better. As in, you don’t promote a mailroom clerk to CEO until he acquires the knowledge and skills necessary to lead, male or female. That’s what I Personally think. If God says differently He’ll tell me so when I see Him. 😉
Not a case of they cannot or are not capable. See the many examples of female CEO’s.
It’s a fact of history facts and teachings. We can’t take one passage and acknowledge it as “old and outdated” without making that case for the whole bible and every passage. It has been historically shown that congregations who allow female pastors also gravitate to progressive ideologies.
Could be more a sign of who and not what.
But unfortunately given that I have to agree with Erick.
We need only site the last words of the Bible.
“I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.”
Certainly make pastors can shift the ideology of the church as much as female but it happens more with woman at the head of the pulpit than men.
That warning in Revelation is mirrored in Deuteronomy and Proverbs but the translators of the ESV version ignored the clear teaching of Scripture and both added and deleted words. One example is Romans 12:7-8 where they added "his" before "teaching" and "exhortation".
For me, it’s not a matter of adding to or taking away in this. It’s relying on the Holy Spirit to guide me. It’s listening to what God wants me to see and hear. Many times Jesus used parables to teach and got a little exasperated when His disciples couldn’t figure it out and He had to explain. But He loved them anyway. It’s my belief He wants me to read, study, and ask questions of Him even if He thinks I should have figured it out by now. I am not a theologian but He has also been very patient with me and, as I said, if I’ve got it wrong He’ll tell me so. But He still loves me unconditionally. I know I have that part right! 😁
Debra, I respect that you say you are walking the path God has for you. Okay. How do you deal with the clear statement in scripture that proscribes women in the pulpit? Is the Bible not the inerrant word of God? If you say it is not, then we part ways and you get to stand before Jesus for your decisions just like I do. If you do believe it is the inerrant word of God, then how do you reconcile your position in opposition to Gods?
12But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
13For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
14And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
15But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.
I understand God created a patriarchal system for a reason and I’m fine with that. All I’m saying is that I’m not judging women because He created them to be gifted teachers. Neither do I judge them for wearing expensive clothes, pearls, or gold, and I’ve always wished I could figure out how to braid my own hair. Neither would I judge a deacon if he had a glass of wine. I’m not Southern Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc. I personally have no desire to teach or preach. Thank You Lord for that! I just love sitting at the feet of Jesus whether He’s speaking to me Himself or through someone else. What denominations decide to do won’t really affect me but if the issue concerns you, then by all means you should work from within and make your voice heard. And that’s all I have to say about that 😁😁
This is not a knock on women’s rights. It’s just fact.
My church Mt pisgah just voted to disassociate from the UM.
All because a female head pastor decided it would be wise to accept the alphabet group.
First I don’t know why the gay crowd is now suddenly wanting to go to church.
I’m fact I don’t think it’s that they want to go for the reason of being forgiven or seeking Jesus. They want their way of life to be acknowledged as normal.
So if the church suddenly accepts them they can be assured they are right.
But the other side is why? Why do these gays feel the need to be affirmed? Because of their calling within from god that what they do is wrong.
That little voice in their head that calls them to church is not for them to seek affirmation. It is for them to repent and sin no more.
Lastly, I hear this argument from the left allot. But there are sinners and adulterers within the church yet they are allowed to come.
Such a falsehood of facts. Gays and lesbians have always been “allowed” to come to church. But never will you hear a man cheating on his wife come forward and ask the church to change to say that this is ok.
No. They come seek forgiveness and repent. Even if it’s a repeated offense to god. They do not seek changes in the Bible to make their sin ok.
The gays want that very much. “See I can be gay the Bible says it’s ok. The church says it’s ok.” No wrong. Human beings leading the church say it’s ok. God is pretty clear that it’s not ok and he is the ultimate authority.
Again these gays need to seek out why they are wanting this. Once they realize it is the inner voice of god calling them home to repent not change his word. Maybe they will make a better world. For now.
Most are atheists devil worshiping sludge. They need repent of their sins and turn away from homosexuality or go back from whence they came.
All are allowed to come. Salvation is for everyone. However, the higher offices that espouse biblical principles are held to a higher standard, and should be. Those who cherry-pick scripture to not have to deal with the difficult passages are walking away from God's truth. It isn't all supposed to be easy. Some changes are hard. Being a light in the darkness means pointing to the source of the truth, which those who walk in darkness don't want to engage with. Sad.
If you want to learn what the original Greek means, read 'Man and Woman, One in Christ " by Philip B. Payne.
The are no priestesses in the Bible. There haven’t been priestesses in Christianity until recently.
I am going back to Orthodoxy. Priests are married. The Matushka runs things. All is good.
Agreed. Hopefully nothing else will enter into consideration except what the Scripture states clearly. True biblical love and unity cannot, must not and do not exclude, lessen or ignore the truth. We do not really love or care about anyone or the honor of God if we do not walk in truth even as our Lord Jesus Christ.
Well said and I agree with all that was said.
Hey Erick , How is your wife doing?
I am a woman’s still in the workforce at 68. I teach Sunday School in a Southern Baptist Church. I grew up in Macon,GA. I knew who Christ was and is but didn’t study scripture til late 30’s and fervently in my 40’s.
I visited many denominations and saw the discourse where a woman was pastor.
I won’t say I agree with you on this. I will say I accept scripture, same as you do.
Thank you Erick! The inerrancy of scripture is everything. Once you start changing passages you don't like it all becomes worthless.
As long as they don’t preach like that money grabber joyce meyer. Good God she is nasty.
There are many women who live with one another as well. Don't see discussion about that topic. Are they really just roommates with no personal feeling about their roommate?
I so agree! We can’t change what the Bible has written. It will lead down the wrong road. I’m not saying that women wouldn’t do a fantastic job but the Bible said “No”
And aren’t we supposed to hate the sin and love the sinner? Why are women being singled out as the reason that the LGBTQ agenda is getting more play at a church? Who are the most vocal people in the LGBTQ world? Aren’t they men? Who’s getting all the news media attention? Trans men. Where do we hear about sexual misconduct? Men that sit in the pulpit. There’s a whole lot more to this than just making a black-and-white rule.
Oh boy. I agree with you on a lot of things but this, I do not. You have to consider the source which is Paul, who, in several other instances, made misogynistic comments. I don’t think you can equate allowing female pastors to the LGBTQ movement. There are plenty of LGBTQ Baptist parishioners I think you need to rethink this, Erick.
Paul is not the only source on this. The role of the priesthood being male goes back before Aaron, ans probably predates Malcedesic. Don't ask me why God made this choice.
Women are ordained because there aren’t enough men to be Leaders. A local episcopal church recently ordained their deacon as a priest. She is a married lesbian.
Erick, if you take time to view the Steve Deace show (on rumble 6/6/2023), i'd be interested in your take on the series of questions discussed...and whether you think the question of pastoral leadership might also fall into that genre? Other than that, as one who left the UMC 20 years ago for a southern baptist fellowship, i agree with you 'note.'
I have to respectfully disagree with one part of this. I have read several commentaries that discuss the history and culture of the day as well as diving a bit deeper into what was happening at the time for Paul to write this to Timothy. In my mind the women Paul was referring to were not ready to assume a leadership role. They didn’t have the education of scripture that most men of that time had and therefore were not prepared to teach. Their lack of education caused them to fall victim to false teachings because they didn’t know better. As in, you don’t promote a mailroom clerk to CEO until he acquires the knowledge and skills necessary to lead, male or female. That’s what I Personally think. If God says differently He’ll tell me so when I see Him. 😉
Not a case of they cannot or are not capable. See the many examples of female CEO’s.
It’s a fact of history facts and teachings. We can’t take one passage and acknowledge it as “old and outdated” without making that case for the whole bible and every passage. It has been historically shown that congregations who allow female pastors also gravitate to progressive ideologies.
Could be more a sign of who and not what.
But unfortunately given that I have to agree with Erick.
We need only site the last words of the Bible.
“I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.”
Certainly make pastors can shift the ideology of the church as much as female but it happens more with woman at the head of the pulpit than men.
That warning in Revelation is mirrored in Deuteronomy and Proverbs but the translators of the ESV version ignored the clear teaching of Scripture and both added and deleted words. One example is Romans 12:7-8 where they added "his" before "teaching" and "exhortation".
For me, it’s not a matter of adding to or taking away in this. It’s relying on the Holy Spirit to guide me. It’s listening to what God wants me to see and hear. Many times Jesus used parables to teach and got a little exasperated when His disciples couldn’t figure it out and He had to explain. But He loved them anyway. It’s my belief He wants me to read, study, and ask questions of Him even if He thinks I should have figured it out by now. I am not a theologian but He has also been very patient with me and, as I said, if I’ve got it wrong He’ll tell me so. But He still loves me unconditionally. I know I have that part right! 😁
Debra, I respect that you say you are walking the path God has for you. Okay. How do you deal with the clear statement in scripture that proscribes women in the pulpit? Is the Bible not the inerrant word of God? If you say it is not, then we part ways and you get to stand before Jesus for your decisions just like I do. If you do believe it is the inerrant word of God, then how do you reconcile your position in opposition to Gods?
12But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
13For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
14And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
15But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.
1 Timothy 2:12–15 (NASB95)
I understand God created a patriarchal system for a reason and I’m fine with that. All I’m saying is that I’m not judging women because He created them to be gifted teachers. Neither do I judge them for wearing expensive clothes, pearls, or gold, and I’ve always wished I could figure out how to braid my own hair. Neither would I judge a deacon if he had a glass of wine. I’m not Southern Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc. I personally have no desire to teach or preach. Thank You Lord for that! I just love sitting at the feet of Jesus whether He’s speaking to me Himself or through someone else. What denominations decide to do won’t really affect me but if the issue concerns you, then by all means you should work from within and make your voice heard. And that’s all I have to say about that 😁😁
This is not a knock on women’s rights. It’s just fact.
My church Mt pisgah just voted to disassociate from the UM.
All because a female head pastor decided it would be wise to accept the alphabet group.
First I don’t know why the gay crowd is now suddenly wanting to go to church.
I’m fact I don’t think it’s that they want to go for the reason of being forgiven or seeking Jesus. They want their way of life to be acknowledged as normal.
So if the church suddenly accepts them they can be assured they are right.
But the other side is why? Why do these gays feel the need to be affirmed? Because of their calling within from god that what they do is wrong.
That little voice in their head that calls them to church is not for them to seek affirmation. It is for them to repent and sin no more.
Lastly, I hear this argument from the left allot. But there are sinners and adulterers within the church yet they are allowed to come.
Such a falsehood of facts. Gays and lesbians have always been “allowed” to come to church. But never will you hear a man cheating on his wife come forward and ask the church to change to say that this is ok.
No. They come seek forgiveness and repent. Even if it’s a repeated offense to god. They do not seek changes in the Bible to make their sin ok.
The gays want that very much. “See I can be gay the Bible says it’s ok. The church says it’s ok.” No wrong. Human beings leading the church say it’s ok. God is pretty clear that it’s not ok and he is the ultimate authority.
Again these gays need to seek out why they are wanting this. Once they realize it is the inner voice of god calling them home to repent not change his word. Maybe they will make a better world. For now.
Most are atheists devil worshiping sludge. They need repent of their sins and turn away from homosexuality or go back from whence they came.
All are allowed to come. Salvation is for everyone. However, the higher offices that espouse biblical principles are held to a higher standard, and should be. Those who cherry-pick scripture to not have to deal with the difficult passages are walking away from God's truth. It isn't all supposed to be easy. Some changes are hard. Being a light in the darkness means pointing to the source of the truth, which those who walk in darkness don't want to engage with. Sad.