For those keeping score at home, Zelenskyy walked in with no security guarantees or any pledge of continued military support from Trump, and walked out the same way. Trump walked in with a rare minerals deal and walked out without one (which deal Zelenskyy would likely have signed anyway, without any security guarantees and even after things went off the rails at this meeting).
As a lawyer, if I came away from a negotiation with the same outcome as Trump, I'd be fired.
The only person who won today was Putin. Next - wait for it - Trump will begin calling for Zelenskyy to be ousted from power, which would be yet another win for a man who invades his neighbors, arrests his political opponents (Navalny) and then has them killed.
Gone are the days when America's response to a malevolent dictator's invasion of his weaker neighbor was, "This will not stand." Now, in the never-ending struggle between good and evil, evil is winning . . . and we're helping.
My prediction about Trump calling for Zelenskyy's ouster bears some elaboration.
In seeking only to vindicate America's interest in avoiding the expense of further support for a losing war in Ukraine, all Trump need do is lament our inability to reach a mutually beneficial agreement and wish the Ukrainian people well. This would be consistent with the view of many that we don't really have a dog in this fight, so to speak. If Trump goes beyond that to call for Zelenskyy's ouster, he doesn't have to do that because again, we don't have a dog in this fight. One would really have to question the nature of Trump's relationship with Putin.
I really don’t know what’s going on with this any longer. Part of me thinks they set Zelensky up and part of me thinks Zelensky might have also been in on it. Hopefully, this doesn’t lead to further chaos so I’m just gonna sit back and watch. But, we certainly aren’t talking about Epstein any longer.
I don’t think bad mouthing your main benefactor is a winning strategy so I guess Zelensky will now go and get bankrolled by France or the UK or maybe 🇨🇦. There is not going to be a winner out of this war just survivors
When your in the Whitehouse and meeting the President if you have reservations wait till your in private conversations don’t start telling your biggest benefactor what to do
Trump and Vance are living in the real tangible world and not the plastic media entertainment virtual world.
There is just that divide with the political media chattering class and the rest of us working for a living actually inventing, making, building, growing and fixing real things. I think sometimes Erick is even lost in this domain of artificial reality. Who came of better or worse?... like it is a perpetual global American Idol competition. Who the F cares about that? What we should care about... did the two parties come ready to discuss a resolution to the problem in good faith and understanding their relative positions?
Clearly Zelenskyy was so far down this fake world media influencer path, that he failed to recognize he was meeting with real tangible builders and problem solvers, and they were not going to accept a play act. They were fine putting the meeting on TV because builders and problem solvers don't have any hidden agenda. They are an open book to the American people and the world. But they don't suffer fools and they should not.
If people cannot see this as good and refreshing, then they are stuck in the media chattering class virtual space and need to get out and touch some grass.
This unwinding from the European addiction to our free money and free protection demands a hard stop. Addiction is a hard habit to break, but forcing the addicted to go cold turkey is required. The Global Order is over. The US is so done with it.
Zelenskyy demonstrated that he is an entertainer that is way in over his head and is emotionally uncontrolled like are our liberal progressive single cat ladies.
I think you need to calm down and be more respectful in your postings. I already said I appreciated the opposite point of view. I’m not here to argue with you. Have a great night!
I thought it was a bad look all around. Zelensky has pushed his schtick beyond human limits, but Trump and Vance came off looking like school yard bullies. Poorly done by all.
I have to admit it's pretty incredible watching these meetings played out live in public. I feel like Trump had a reason to do this in front of the cameras. I wish I was smart enough to know what's going on, but I'll find out eventually.
I have to disagree with the take here. Though I don't think Zelensky came out great Trump and Vance came out worse. Zelensky wants security guarantee to protect is people while Trump and Vance want a mineral deal and to slander the man as a dictator while arguing that Russia is not the aggressor in this war. They are caving to the online pro-Russia right that does not know what the hell they are talking about in the region. Bad look for the US.
You and that reptilian Lindsey Graham want Zelensky to step aside? For whom? And to do what?
More nonsense from your corner. Your bald inability to mildly-mildly-rebuke either Trump (who acts like Putin’s lapdog) or Vance’s juvenescent interruptions diminish any serious thought you might otherwise provide..
Well, I want a unicorn that poops jellybeans. I’m sure every country on the planet would like us to guarantee their safety. We don’t owe that to anyone. Time Zelensky figured that out. The gravy train ride is over.
Remember when Trump called Zelensky the first term and even Zelensky said the call was fine and the media said Zelensky is a clown and was a comedian? And now he is like an angel to the left wing media. Trump was going to have this on film and out in the open way to go Mr President. Keep praying Psalm 109 over all the Dems and the dem voters it’s a great prayer
I posted yesterday about my husband's experience "negotiating" with Trump on a Chicago deal. (There was no negotiation. Trump said, either change your pricing or you're done; and you can take me to court.) This afternoon, I found something that might give us all a little insight:
Remember when Trump called Kim Jong Un "Little Rocket Man" (Sept 2017) and "a madman with nuclear weapons" (April 2017) and a "sick puppy" (Nov. 2017)? And then, after the Singapore Summit (May 2018), he said of Kim, "Great personality and very smart. Good combination. He’s a worthy negotiator. He’s negotiating on behalf of his people, a very worthy, very smart negotiator, absolutely. And we had a terrific day, and we learned a lot about each other and about our countries.” READ THAT QUOTE AGAIN.
Trump appreciates a good sparring partner, but he respects a good negotiator. Zelenskyy was NOT a good negotiator today. Trump gave him a verbal Brooklyn Beatdown in the Oval Office today. Zelenskyy was cavalier, unprepared, and far too comfortable -- considering he was walking into the lair of a man whom he helped campaign against just a few months ago.
MAYBE PART OF TRUMP'S BLUSTER WAS TO SHOW THE WORLD HOW INEPT ZELENSKYY IS AS A NEGOTIATOR. Maybe Trump KNOWS that Zelenskyy will have his a$$ handed to him by Putin at the negotiating table, and Ukraine NEEDS a stronger representative. Maybe all this was to get Zelenskyy de-throned so a more adequate, more serious -- c'mon, the guy was a commedian before he became Ukraine's president! -- representative can take a seat at the table.
What I know is this: Dealing with Trump in 2008 taught my hubby a lesson: He went on to earn an advanced degree at Harvard several years later and took a "negotiating" course. Today, if Hubby were negotiating with Trump, things would look different. He wouldn't roll over so easily. He would probably lose his job over it, but -- hey! -- he "got retired" once already. Losing a job because you chose to play hard ball with DJT might be worth another pink slip.
Why didn’t Zelensky bring that to the floor when Biden was president? Because he was comfortably getting billion dollar checks. That’s why.
I understand Ukraine didn’t start this war. But if he thinks coming in and screaming at the leader of the free world is a way to resolve it. He’s a fool.
Zelensky can now fight this war on his own. We won’t support either side and he has billions of our dollars to fight with. If Europe is so concerned let them pony up the doh. Or send their troops. We shouldn’t be expected to send Americans off to fight a war that is a stalemate. China is in the verge of invading Taiwan. We got bigger fish to fry than some long old Biden and Obama leftover war.
No kidding.... And our military is in a shambles. Since the end of WWII, our policy was always to keep a military that would be able to fight two different wars on two different fronts. That isn't true anymore... Obama ended that. Recruitment numbers are shockingly low... Eight years of Obama and four years of Biden has really taken its toll.
Not so much the numbers, but the quality of the troops and their combat readiness. Although the official posture is that we are ready, due to the lowering of standards of fitness, tactical and strategic savvy, leadership and morale, we are not.
Zelenskyy must have been thinking with his heart and not his head. He can’t continue to fight Russia without the support of the USA. Arguing with Trump and Vance about doing a peace deal won’t get him that support.
Ukraine will never get a peace deal where they get all their territory back and Putin appropriately punished. It’s not fair, but it’s the reality of the situation. All they can do is work with Trump to get the best deal possible given the circumstances.
I couldn't find this information. Would you share your source, please? Considering Ukraine's prime minister and parliamentary speaker expressed support for President Zelensky, I doubt it will go anywhere. Ukraine needs absolute security guarantees. The one she was previously given - from the 90's when her nuclear weapons were given up in exchange for guarantees - was not at all guaranteed and went unfulfilled when Putin invaded in 2014 and 2022.
I'm liking Vance less and less.
For those keeping score at home, Zelenskyy walked in with no security guarantees or any pledge of continued military support from Trump, and walked out the same way. Trump walked in with a rare minerals deal and walked out without one (which deal Zelenskyy would likely have signed anyway, without any security guarantees and even after things went off the rails at this meeting).
As a lawyer, if I came away from a negotiation with the same outcome as Trump, I'd be fired.
The only person who won today was Putin. Next - wait for it - Trump will begin calling for Zelenskyy to be ousted from power, which would be yet another win for a man who invades his neighbors, arrests his political opponents (Navalny) and then has them killed.
Gone are the days when America's response to a malevolent dictator's invasion of his weaker neighbor was, "This will not stand." Now, in the never-ending struggle between good and evil, evil is winning . . . and we're helping.
My prediction about Trump calling for Zelenskyy's ouster bears some elaboration.
In seeking only to vindicate America's interest in avoiding the expense of further support for a losing war in Ukraine, all Trump need do is lament our inability to reach a mutually beneficial agreement and wish the Ukrainian people well. This would be consistent with the view of many that we don't really have a dog in this fight, so to speak. If Trump goes beyond that to call for Zelenskyy's ouster, he doesn't have to do that because again, we don't have a dog in this fight. One would really have to question the nature of Trump's relationship with Putin.
Now, watch what he does.
I really don’t know what’s going on with this any longer. Part of me thinks they set Zelensky up and part of me thinks Zelensky might have also been in on it. Hopefully, this doesn’t lead to further chaos so I’m just gonna sit back and watch. But, we certainly aren’t talking about Epstein any longer.
I don’t think bad mouthing your main benefactor is a winning strategy so I guess Zelensky will now go and get bankrolled by France or the UK or maybe 🇨🇦. There is not going to be a winner out of this war just survivors
Exactly what did Zalenskyy say that amounted to "badmouthing" us or this administration?
When your in the Whitehouse and meeting the President if you have reservations wait till your in private conversations don’t start telling your biggest benefactor what to do
Trump and Vance are living in the real tangible world and not the plastic media entertainment virtual world.
There is just that divide with the political media chattering class and the rest of us working for a living actually inventing, making, building, growing and fixing real things. I think sometimes Erick is even lost in this domain of artificial reality. Who came of better or worse?... like it is a perpetual global American Idol competition. Who the F cares about that? What we should care about... did the two parties come ready to discuss a resolution to the problem in good faith and understanding their relative positions?
Clearly Zelenskyy was so far down this fake world media influencer path, that he failed to recognize he was meeting with real tangible builders and problem solvers, and they were not going to accept a play act. They were fine putting the meeting on TV because builders and problem solvers don't have any hidden agenda. They are an open book to the American people and the world. But they don't suffer fools and they should not.
If people cannot see this as good and refreshing, then they are stuck in the media chattering class virtual space and need to get out and touch some grass.
This unwinding from the European addiction to our free money and free protection demands a hard stop. Addiction is a hard habit to break, but forcing the addicted to go cold turkey is required. The Global Order is over. The US is so done with it.
Zelenskyy demonstrated that he is an entertainer that is way in over his head and is emotionally uncontrolled like are our liberal progressive single cat ladies.
I think you need to calm down and be more respectful in your postings. I already said I appreciated the opposite point of view. I’m not here to argue with you. Have a great night!
I thought it was a bad look all around. Zelensky has pushed his schtick beyond human limits, but Trump and Vance came off looking like school yard bullies. Poorly done by all.
I have to admit it's pretty incredible watching these meetings played out live in public. I feel like Trump had a reason to do this in front of the cameras. I wish I was smart enough to know what's going on, but I'll find out eventually.
This should have been a private meeting. This was awful.
I have to disagree with the take here. Though I don't think Zelensky came out great Trump and Vance came out worse. Zelensky wants security guarantee to protect is people while Trump and Vance want a mineral deal and to slander the man as a dictator while arguing that Russia is not the aggressor in this war. They are caving to the online pro-Russia right that does not know what the hell they are talking about in the region. Bad look for the US.
You and that reptilian Lindsey Graham want Zelensky to step aside? For whom? And to do what?
More nonsense from your corner. Your bald inability to mildly-mildly-rebuke either Trump (who acts like Putin’s lapdog) or Vance’s juvenescent interruptions diminish any serious thought you might otherwise provide..
That is a reasonable assessment if watching it standing on your head dreaming about old neocon days.
Well, I want a unicorn that poops jellybeans. I’m sure every country on the planet would like us to guarantee their safety. We don’t owe that to anyone. Time Zelensky figured that out. The gravy train ride is over.
Remember when Trump called Zelensky the first term and even Zelensky said the call was fine and the media said Zelensky is a clown and was a comedian? And now he is like an angel to the left wing media. Trump was going to have this on film and out in the open way to go Mr President. Keep praying Psalm 109 over all the Dems and the dem voters it’s a great prayer
I posted yesterday about my husband's experience "negotiating" with Trump on a Chicago deal. (There was no negotiation. Trump said, either change your pricing or you're done; and you can take me to court.) This afternoon, I found something that might give us all a little insight:
Remember when Trump called Kim Jong Un "Little Rocket Man" (Sept 2017) and "a madman with nuclear weapons" (April 2017) and a "sick puppy" (Nov. 2017)? And then, after the Singapore Summit (May 2018), he said of Kim, "Great personality and very smart. Good combination. He’s a worthy negotiator. He’s negotiating on behalf of his people, a very worthy, very smart negotiator, absolutely. And we had a terrific day, and we learned a lot about each other and about our countries.” READ THAT QUOTE AGAIN.
Trump appreciates a good sparring partner, but he respects a good negotiator. Zelenskyy was NOT a good negotiator today. Trump gave him a verbal Brooklyn Beatdown in the Oval Office today. Zelenskyy was cavalier, unprepared, and far too comfortable -- considering he was walking into the lair of a man whom he helped campaign against just a few months ago.
MAYBE PART OF TRUMP'S BLUSTER WAS TO SHOW THE WORLD HOW INEPT ZELENSKYY IS AS A NEGOTIATOR. Maybe Trump KNOWS that Zelenskyy will have his a$$ handed to him by Putin at the negotiating table, and Ukraine NEEDS a stronger representative. Maybe all this was to get Zelenskyy de-throned so a more adequate, more serious -- c'mon, the guy was a commedian before he became Ukraine's president! -- representative can take a seat at the table.
What I know is this: Dealing with Trump in 2008 taught my hubby a lesson: He went on to earn an advanced degree at Harvard several years later and took a "negotiating" course. Today, if Hubby were negotiating with Trump, things would look different. He wouldn't roll over so easily. He would probably lose his job over it, but -- hey! -- he "got retired" once already. Losing a job because you chose to play hard ball with DJT might be worth another pink slip.
I appreciate both your own and hubby's graciousness.
Here’s my take. Go back to the resolution.
Why didn’t Zelensky bring that to the floor when Biden was president? Because he was comfortably getting billion dollar checks. That’s why.
I understand Ukraine didn’t start this war. But if he thinks coming in and screaming at the leader of the free world is a way to resolve it. He’s a fool.
Zelensky can now fight this war on his own. We won’t support either side and he has billions of our dollars to fight with. If Europe is so concerned let them pony up the doh. Or send their troops. We shouldn’t be expected to send Americans off to fight a war that is a stalemate. China is in the verge of invading Taiwan. We got bigger fish to fry than some long old Biden and Obama leftover war.
How much you wanna bet on Trump defending Taiwan?
No kidding.... And our military is in a shambles. Since the end of WWII, our policy was always to keep a military that would be able to fight two different wars on two different fronts. That isn't true anymore... Obama ended that. Recruitment numbers are shockingly low... Eight years of Obama and four years of Biden has really taken its toll.
Not so much the numbers, but the quality of the troops and their combat readiness. Although the official posture is that we are ready, due to the lowering of standards of fitness, tactical and strategic savvy, leadership and morale, we are not.
Zelenskyy must have been thinking with his heart and not his head. He can’t continue to fight Russia without the support of the USA. Arguing with Trump and Vance about doing a peace deal won’t get him that support.
Ukraine will never get a peace deal where they get all their territory back and Putin appropriately punished. It’s not fair, but it’s the reality of the situation. All they can do is work with Trump to get the best deal possible given the circumstances.
A member of Ukraine's legislative body has just said he will be introducing an impeachment resolution tomorrow.
My brother saw that too, but I am still not sure what the source was.
I couldn't find this information. Would you share your source, please? Considering Ukraine's prime minister and parliamentary speaker expressed support for President Zelensky, I doubt it will go anywhere. Ukraine needs absolute security guarantees. The one she was previously given - from the 90's when her nuclear weapons were given up in exchange for guarantees - was not at all guaranteed and went unfulfilled when Putin invaded in 2014 and 2022.