I come neither to defend John Piper nor attack him. If you have not read his piece that has all sorts of people up in arm, you should read it here. I voted straight Republican this year except for my local sheriff and district attorney, two positions I do not think should be partisan anyway. I would not vote for a politician who supports abortion rights. Abortion is a euphemism for legally sanctioned murder. I would not vote for Joe Biden, a man who I think actually is nice, but whose policies are terrible and will wreck our recovering economy.
Boy you were right. You sort of made me mad. Mad enough to sign up and comment. Yesterday myself and 30 or so other Republican supporters spent several hours in Carroll County waving American flags, Trump flags, Don’t Tread on Me flags and holding signs in support of our President. We weren’t yelling F Biden or vote Trump or you’ll regret it. Overwhelmingly the day was full of thumbs up, and horn blowing in full support of Donald J. Trump. On the flip side I had one thumbs down from a white young girl and her mom. That was completely acceptable. I even did a little touchdown dance for the young girl. The issues I had came from mostly younger 20 something year old black women. The were enraged enough to tell me I was number one with their middle finger all the while videoing their escapades. My response was, “love not hate” and “we go high and you’re going low.” BTW the black males mostly loved what we were doing. I agree with that poll that say, “Trump has support from black males.”
I just really want to know how any of us know that the President is UNREPENTANT?
He supports what conservatives support. He has proved his worth in my opinion. I could simply support him
based off of the fact that democrats and the left wing media all lied and colluded to hurt the man. They tried to make him quite fighting and any less of a man, “Bush 43” would have given in. They even said, “he had hookers pee on him“ as part of some weirdo thing and that was simply another lie, and that’s another reason why I support DJT. He is and was sinner just like all of us. Does the President continue dividing us? Well, how can anyone unite us? Biden is talking like he will, but that is just like Obama’s lie. He divided us so bad he made conservative America mad and we fought back and elected DJT. You can’t unite me with anyone who believes abortion is a women’s right and believes the government will fix healthcare. We can’t deny the President loves America. He’s obviously become a better man and isn’t having Kennedy type relationships in the White House. Maybe I love this President because he is Pro-life and isn’t shy about it. As a Christian I’m taught that all sin is the same. That is where I’m flawed. Abortion is and will always be in my top 2 of worst sins. It is way worse than bragging about your accomplishments, or saying bad words on stage in front of America. My and Erick’s sin of partaking in alcohol goes against Gods teachings. So Erick you too need to sometimes get off your high horse and realize if you really believe in Gods teachings then your sins are no different than the president’s sins. It is worth repeating, I repent of my sins by asking for Gods forgiveness and many times turn around and commit that sin again. I’m flawed and when I see a pretty women it’s hard not to do a cat call in my head. It is time we look at the President as just like us. He is human and just like everyone else a sinner he just doesn’t hide his like the rest of us do. Look who he is surrounded by in Washington, bureaucrats! They hate him because, he moved their cheese, and they will tell on him at every which way they can to stop what they as unelected govt. employees don’t like and we should cheer the President for that. I’ll ask it again. How do any of us know that the President is UNREPENTANT?
"Many of you are rationalizing a vote for one sinner whose policies you like over another sinner whose policies you don’t like...."
Of course we are. The same thing would be true if George Washington were running against Hillary Clinton. Both are (or were) flawed individuals, as are we all. But any effort to draw a moral equivalence between the two would be absurd. Everything human beings are and do are shades of gray. But adults who have a developed moral conscience understand that the ability to discern and discriminate between shades of gray is indicative of moral maturity.
"Don’t tell me voting for a morally corrupt person does not have consequences on your own soul or the character of a nation."
No thoughtful Christian (or other conservative) excuses Trump's stupid rhetoric and infantile tweets. But the fact that Donald Trump was a serial adulterer in the past and a proud narcissist in the present does not result in my wanting to be either an adulterer or a narcissist -- nor would it affect most people accordingly. But the fact that he is the most pro-life president in history and a strong supporter of religious freedom and the rule of law (along with dozens of other moral positions that we could cite) does in fact have consequences on the soul and character of the nation.
Thoughtful and informed Christians are not looking to make America into some kind of theocratic (or more accurately, sacralistic) state. We are not Theonomists or "Christian Reconstructionists." I don't take any cues from Jerry Falwell (Senior or Junior) or Robert Jeffress -- and certainly not from John Piper or Tim Keller -- any more than I would take seriously anything that Andy Stanley might blurt out about politics. There are far better Christian social and political thinkers today (Wayne Grudem, Gene Edward Veith, Robert George, Rod Dreher, and dozens more).
"If you want to vote for Trump, vote for Trump.
If you want to vote for Biden, vote for Biden.
If you want to vote third party or refuse, God bless you too....
I don't care who you vote for...."
This is foolish and irresponsible.
It is horrible and it saddens me that you and your wife were hassled in 2016 and I would never support that, but those who reacted as such may have been shocked that you seemed to be incapable of distinguishing between Trump and Hillary. In 2016 we knew all about Hlllary, which is why no knowledgable Christian could vote for her. On the other hand, we could only hope that Trump would fulfill at least some of his campaign promises. Now Trump has a track record, and we know that he has accomplished far more good than any president since WW2.
The Above Response Is From My Friend Jefrey Breshears of Areopagus
I am held accountable by God for what I know. I know Biden supports abortion on demand and after the birth of the child. As well as supporting children as young as 8 living as a transgender. I know it is my moral duty to be part of everything God ordained and God ordained government. It is my civil and moral duty to vote. I will face God one day and who I vote for and why I vote matters.
I don't know why, but this exchange (above), coupled with our escalating political obsessions, brought to mind an ancient wisdom that I once encountered somewhere on this earth.
As centuries of human comedy and tragedy rolled by, the Teacher somehow managed to continue and expand a true true Word of divine wisdom.
When at last, in the fullness of time, the Word was manifested in flesh, the ministry turned out to be not what folks expected.
"Now when John, while imprisoned," heard of the works of Christ, he sent word by his disciples and said to Him, 'Are you the Expected One, or shall we look for someone else?' ".
"Jesus answered and said to them 'Go and report to John what you hear and see: the blind receive sight and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.' "
The will and love of God is revealed to mankind, not by what happens to the self-important political and economic high society people who think the world and all its money and politics revolves around them.
What the Lord was doing among the poor, to heal and provide for them--this is what our Creator is considering when he judges us.
What is happening to the "least among us?"
In this country now, poor people are trying to send a message to us comfortable citizens.
We'd better start paying attention to what really needs to be done in the poor neighborhoods before the destructive elements move in like wolves to devour sheep whose shepherds are distracted by such trivial things as money and power.
Justice and Mercy must be founded or we will have hell to pay.
How easy it is to complain .... even about others' complaining. Christian grace will be needed to talk people "off the ledge," if their candidate loses. Remember that four years ago therapists made money counseling people who voted for Hillary and believed the polls.
As I've mentioned here before, the voice of the Republican Party in Philadelphia hardly exists. One of the two Republican members of City Council got into a heated debate this week over the meaning of "peaceful protest," as City Council voted to outlaw police action with tear gas. On a more positive note, the mayor managed to disburse the tent city near the Art Museum, just as the cold weather starts.
The voter turnout in Philly will probably determine who wins Pennsylvania, and the winner of Pennsylvania will probably become President. But God is still on the throne, and He hears our prayers.
As always, you say what is unsaid and you simultaneously point out the painfully obvious. I too, voted straight Republican. My reasoning is more basic: as people who know “truth” we are truly the only ones able to discern the lesser of two evils.
This does not make our choice righteous. The evil of our choice has fewer temporal consequences.
As long as we exist in a fallen world we will face these choices. Yet you & I both know that the time is coming when we will be unable to make any choice; this will be due to morality and for the fact the time is soon coming when our persecution will be real.
We should ask God for His mercy & grace in the meantime. I’ll stay away from your lawn too! 😎
As a Christian I do see the issues you raise regarding our President. However, the alternative is socialism and abortion on demand which God hates.
God is Ruler of my soul and guides my belief system. The President is the nation's leader, and I don't worship him. He is in line with God's law so far (pro life, freedom of religion, etc).
We need to vote to protect our nation from the dire consequences of the democratic platform.
Erick, I am not mad at either your nor John Piper. I have repeatedly stated in other posts that the people who attacked you are your family because of your not supporting Trump were 100% wrong. I have now also seen where Robert Jeffress, called Never Trump Evangelicals morons, which is also 100% wrong.
That being said, I do not agree with all of Piper's remarks, even though he has every right in the world to make them. In terms of unrepentant sexual immorality, I don't think Piper (or many Trump critics) are being fair to him. I have yet to see a single allegation of Trump's sexual immorality that isn't from over 10 years ago, which strongly suggests to me that he has turned away from this immoral behavior, which is the essence of repentance (as actions tend to count much more than words).
Many evangelicals (like myself) can vote for Trump in good conscience despite his many moral flaws because his fundamental job as President is basically to implement policies that are beneficial to our nation, which he arguably has done. I have not seen a legitimate argument that the policies of Trump are Biblically immoral. In talking proudly about his policy accomplishments, in some ways, Trump is no different than any other politician who brags about the policies they have supported. This is different than Trump boasting about how he has no need for God because of his behavior/wisdom, which is clearly anti-Biblical (1 Corinthians 1:29-31).
Trump is indeed divisive (factiousness), but so was Jesus. Trump's appointment of pro-life judges has certainly been decisive to those who want unlimited abortion rights, but that is being decisive in a positive Biblical way. And Trump is indeed vulgar, but so are many of his critics who have repeatedly slandered him with false accusations. Instead of defending Trump against these immoral attacks, my impression is that many Never Trump Evangelicals eagerly jump on the pile of false accusations, which is hardly commendable Biblical behavior.
Trump can be guilty of all the things Piper brings up, but it doesn't change the fact that somebody has to be elected President, and realistically, there are only two choices in our country - a Democratic candidate and a Republican candidate. In addition to abortion rights, the Democrats support an Iranian regime that consistently chants death to Israel, while Trump is busy making peace agreements with Arab nations and Israel. I have no desire to judge Never Trump Evangelicals. But I don't think it is Biblically wise for them to judge me for my support of Trump.
As an additional note, I think Biden will be prosecuted for the Ukrainian deal. It’ll either be done by the Republicans if they win, to make a display of the Democrats’ hypocrisy or by the Democrats if they win. As an added tool to dump him in favor of Kamala. With blessings of the radical leftists.
Boy you were right. You sort of made me mad. Mad enough to sign up and comment. Yesterday myself and 30 or so other Republican supporters spent several hours in Carroll County waving American flags, Trump flags, Don’t Tread on Me flags and holding signs in support of our President. We weren’t yelling F Biden or vote Trump or you’ll regret it. Overwhelmingly the day was full of thumbs up, and horn blowing in full support of Donald J. Trump. On the flip side I had one thumbs down from a white young girl and her mom. That was completely acceptable. I even did a little touchdown dance for the young girl. The issues I had came from mostly younger 20 something year old black women. The were enraged enough to tell me I was number one with their middle finger all the while videoing their escapades. My response was, “love not hate” and “we go high and you’re going low.” BTW the black males mostly loved what we were doing. I agree with that poll that say, “Trump has support from black males.”
I just really want to know how any of us know that the President is UNREPENTANT?
He supports what conservatives support. He has proved his worth in my opinion. I could simply support him
based off of the fact that democrats and the left wing media all lied and colluded to hurt the man. They tried to make him quite fighting and any less of a man, “Bush 43” would have given in. They even said, “he had hookers pee on him“ as part of some weirdo thing and that was simply another lie, and that’s another reason why I support DJT. He is and was sinner just like all of us. Does the President continue dividing us? Well, how can anyone unite us? Biden is talking like he will, but that is just like Obama’s lie. He divided us so bad he made conservative America mad and we fought back and elected DJT. You can’t unite me with anyone who believes abortion is a women’s right and believes the government will fix healthcare. We can’t deny the President loves America. He’s obviously become a better man and isn’t having Kennedy type relationships in the White House. Maybe I love this President because he is Pro-life and isn’t shy about it. As a Christian I’m taught that all sin is the same. That is where I’m flawed. Abortion is and will always be in my top 2 of worst sins. It is way worse than bragging about your accomplishments, or saying bad words on stage in front of America. My and Erick’s sin of partaking in alcohol goes against Gods teachings. So Erick you too need to sometimes get off your high horse and realize if you really believe in Gods teachings then your sins are no different than the president’s sins. It is worth repeating, I repent of my sins by asking for Gods forgiveness and many times turn around and commit that sin again. I’m flawed and when I see a pretty women it’s hard not to do a cat call in my head. It is time we look at the President as just like us. He is human and just like everyone else a sinner he just doesn’t hide his like the rest of us do. Look who he is surrounded by in Washington, bureaucrats! They hate him because, he moved their cheese, and they will tell on him at every which way they can to stop what they as unelected govt. employees don’t like and we should cheer the President for that. I’ll ask it again. How do any of us know that the President is UNREPENTANT?
"Many of you are rationalizing a vote for one sinner whose policies you like over another sinner whose policies you don’t like...."
Of course we are. The same thing would be true if George Washington were running against Hillary Clinton. Both are (or were) flawed individuals, as are we all. But any effort to draw a moral equivalence between the two would be absurd. Everything human beings are and do are shades of gray. But adults who have a developed moral conscience understand that the ability to discern and discriminate between shades of gray is indicative of moral maturity.
"Don’t tell me voting for a morally corrupt person does not have consequences on your own soul or the character of a nation."
No thoughtful Christian (or other conservative) excuses Trump's stupid rhetoric and infantile tweets. But the fact that Donald Trump was a serial adulterer in the past and a proud narcissist in the present does not result in my wanting to be either an adulterer or a narcissist -- nor would it affect most people accordingly. But the fact that he is the most pro-life president in history and a strong supporter of religious freedom and the rule of law (along with dozens of other moral positions that we could cite) does in fact have consequences on the soul and character of the nation.
Thoughtful and informed Christians are not looking to make America into some kind of theocratic (or more accurately, sacralistic) state. We are not Theonomists or "Christian Reconstructionists." I don't take any cues from Jerry Falwell (Senior or Junior) or Robert Jeffress -- and certainly not from John Piper or Tim Keller -- any more than I would take seriously anything that Andy Stanley might blurt out about politics. There are far better Christian social and political thinkers today (Wayne Grudem, Gene Edward Veith, Robert George, Rod Dreher, and dozens more).
"If you want to vote for Trump, vote for Trump.
If you want to vote for Biden, vote for Biden.
If you want to vote third party or refuse, God bless you too....
I don't care who you vote for...."
This is foolish and irresponsible.
It is horrible and it saddens me that you and your wife were hassled in 2016 and I would never support that, but those who reacted as such may have been shocked that you seemed to be incapable of distinguishing between Trump and Hillary. In 2016 we knew all about Hlllary, which is why no knowledgable Christian could vote for her. On the other hand, we could only hope that Trump would fulfill at least some of his campaign promises. Now Trump has a track record, and we know that he has accomplished far more good than any president since WW2.
The Above Response Is From My Friend Jefrey Breshears of Areopagus
I am held accountable by God for what I know. I know Biden supports abortion on demand and after the birth of the child. As well as supporting children as young as 8 living as a transgender. I know it is my moral duty to be part of everything God ordained and God ordained government. It is my civil and moral duty to vote. I will face God one day and who I vote for and why I vote matters.
All is vanity, saith the Teacher.
I don't know why, but this exchange (above), coupled with our escalating political obsessions, brought to mind an ancient wisdom that I once encountered somewhere on this earth.
As centuries of human comedy and tragedy rolled by, the Teacher somehow managed to continue and expand a true true Word of divine wisdom.
When at last, in the fullness of time, the Word was manifested in flesh, the ministry turned out to be not what folks expected.
"Now when John, while imprisoned," heard of the works of Christ, he sent word by his disciples and said to Him, 'Are you the Expected One, or shall we look for someone else?' ".
"Jesus answered and said to them 'Go and report to John what you hear and see: the blind receive sight and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.' "
The will and love of God is revealed to mankind, not by what happens to the self-important political and economic high society people who think the world and all its money and politics revolves around them.
What the Lord was doing among the poor, to heal and provide for them--this is what our Creator is considering when he judges us.
What is happening to the "least among us?"
In this country now, poor people are trying to send a message to us comfortable citizens.
We'd better start paying attention to what really needs to be done in the poor neighborhoods before the destructive elements move in like wolves to devour sheep whose shepherds are distracted by such trivial things as money and power.
Justice and Mercy must be founded or we will have hell to pay.
Not mad at all. I whole-heartedly agree.
How easy it is to complain .... even about others' complaining. Christian grace will be needed to talk people "off the ledge," if their candidate loses. Remember that four years ago therapists made money counseling people who voted for Hillary and believed the polls.
As I've mentioned here before, the voice of the Republican Party in Philadelphia hardly exists. One of the two Republican members of City Council got into a heated debate this week over the meaning of "peaceful protest," as City Council voted to outlaw police action with tear gas. On a more positive note, the mayor managed to disburse the tent city near the Art Museum, just as the cold weather starts.
The voter turnout in Philly will probably determine who wins Pennsylvania, and the winner of Pennsylvania will probably become President. But God is still on the throne, and He hears our prayers.
Well said, Erick - right on point!
Thank you.
Well said!
Great.
Well it’s about time you showed up LOL!!!😂😂 Thank you so much. That was needed
As always, you say what is unsaid and you simultaneously point out the painfully obvious. I too, voted straight Republican. My reasoning is more basic: as people who know “truth” we are truly the only ones able to discern the lesser of two evils.
This does not make our choice righteous. The evil of our choice has fewer temporal consequences.
As long as we exist in a fallen world we will face these choices. Yet you & I both know that the time is coming when we will be unable to make any choice; this will be due to morality and for the fact the time is soon coming when our persecution will be real.
We should ask God for His mercy & grace in the meantime. I’ll stay away from your lawn too! 😎
As a Christian I do see the issues you raise regarding our President. However, the alternative is socialism and abortion on demand which God hates.
God is Ruler of my soul and guides my belief system. The President is the nation's leader, and I don't worship him. He is in line with God's law so far (pro life, freedom of religion, etc).
We need to vote to protect our nation from the dire consequences of the democratic platform.
Hi Erick - This was a good article. I am wondering what you would say about Mohler's recent article on the matter?
Erick, I am not mad at either your nor John Piper. I have repeatedly stated in other posts that the people who attacked you are your family because of your not supporting Trump were 100% wrong. I have now also seen where Robert Jeffress, called Never Trump Evangelicals morons, which is also 100% wrong.
That being said, I do not agree with all of Piper's remarks, even though he has every right in the world to make them. In terms of unrepentant sexual immorality, I don't think Piper (or many Trump critics) are being fair to him. I have yet to see a single allegation of Trump's sexual immorality that isn't from over 10 years ago, which strongly suggests to me that he has turned away from this immoral behavior, which is the essence of repentance (as actions tend to count much more than words).
Many evangelicals (like myself) can vote for Trump in good conscience despite his many moral flaws because his fundamental job as President is basically to implement policies that are beneficial to our nation, which he arguably has done. I have not seen a legitimate argument that the policies of Trump are Biblically immoral. In talking proudly about his policy accomplishments, in some ways, Trump is no different than any other politician who brags about the policies they have supported. This is different than Trump boasting about how he has no need for God because of his behavior/wisdom, which is clearly anti-Biblical (1 Corinthians 1:29-31).
Trump is indeed divisive (factiousness), but so was Jesus. Trump's appointment of pro-life judges has certainly been decisive to those who want unlimited abortion rights, but that is being decisive in a positive Biblical way. And Trump is indeed vulgar, but so are many of his critics who have repeatedly slandered him with false accusations. Instead of defending Trump against these immoral attacks, my impression is that many Never Trump Evangelicals eagerly jump on the pile of false accusations, which is hardly commendable Biblical behavior.
Trump can be guilty of all the things Piper brings up, but it doesn't change the fact that somebody has to be elected President, and realistically, there are only two choices in our country - a Democratic candidate and a Republican candidate. In addition to abortion rights, the Democrats support an Iranian regime that consistently chants death to Israel, while Trump is busy making peace agreements with Arab nations and Israel. I have no desire to judge Never Trump Evangelicals. But I don't think it is Biblically wise for them to judge me for my support of Trump.
As an additional note, I think Biden will be prosecuted for the Ukrainian deal. It’ll either be done by the Republicans if they win, to make a display of the Democrats’ hypocrisy or by the Democrats if they win. As an added tool to dump him in favor of Kamala. With blessings of the radical leftists.
Once again - this is why I subscribe. Thanks for staying honest, Erick.