Erick-Erick-Erick....sometimes you just can’t help yourself. Quit trying to straddle the fence. If President Trump had NOT visited the church everyone would criticize him (claim he was hiding in his bunker) If he took his motorcade they would have criticized him for wasting taxpayer $ and being elitist. So as usual he tried to defend the values our country was FOUNDED ON (in his usual odd and sometimes cringeworthy way) but gets hammered for doing it. Make no mistake, the tragic event in Minneapolis was disgusting. However, the opportunistic rioting and looting will leave a scar on this country forever. The timing couldn’t have been any worse with everyone trying to reopen businesses after the Coronavirus Pandemic. History tells us that great civilizations usually implode after 250 years. 7/4/20 will be our 244th birthday. Let that marinate for a while.....🤨
"Using the Bible for a photo-op at a church after having tear gas fired off at nonviolent protesters to clear a path will win the President the votes of people who are already going to vote for him. He had the opportunity to move the needle with persuadable voters in a significant way and he did not.Says"
These two view points used to make persuasive points s are wrong.! I would rather the President us the Bible then Vladimir Lenin Bibliography. The left , the drive by media and socialist big business would love to hold it up as their flag of choice. This walk through the park area was a clear statement that he will not hide in fear and weak decision making. I wish he would have said words of encouragement while standing in front of the church holding ,not a prop,the Lord Jesus's words of truth the Bible.
Than what about those poor protesters standing at the face line. I don't know where you where getting the information perhaps,CNN, MSNBC, CBS or any of those alphabetical soup purveyors of distortion and flat out lies but that is not went down. These lovers of virtuous protesting had baseball bates and other implements of violent disorder stored along the face line. Ingraham of the Ingraham Angle was there and as she say no tear gas was used nor rubber bullets. She sad mace was used as she got some in her eyes. Then I as a watcher on TV I would have seen smoke as the President walk from the White House to the church location. I know you have a dislike for Trump and that is your choice but do if you can,be a seeker of the truth and get the right information. I get my senses filled up with enough lies and manipulation,
"On Monday, June 1, the USPP worked with the United States Secret Service to have temporary fencing installed inside Lafayette Park. At approximately 6:33 pm, violent protestors on H Street NW began throwing projectiles including bricks, frozen water bottles and caustic liquids. The protestors also climbed onto a historic building at the north end of Lafayette Park that was destroyed by arson days prior. Intelligence had revealed calls for violence against the police, and officers found caches of glass bottles, baseball bats and metal poles hidden along the street. [new #]To curtail the violence that was underway, the USPP, following established policy, issued three warnings over a loudspeaker to alert demonstrators on H Street to evacuate the area. Horse mounted patrol, Civil Disturbance Units and additional personnel were used to clear the area. As many of the protestors became more combative, continued to throw projectiles, and attempted to grab officers’ weapons, officers then employed the use of smoke canisters and pepper balls. No tear gas was used by USPP officers or other assisting law enforcement partners to close the area at Lafayette Park. Subsequently, the fence was installed. [new #]Throughout the demonstrations, the USPP has not made any arrests. The USPP will always support peaceful assembly but cannot tolerate violence to citizens or officers or damage to our nation’s resources that we are entrusted to protect."
It's just this amazing coincidence that the Park Police claimed protester violence right when Barr was overseeing the clear-out, followed by Trump's stroll over to St. John's.
One question is were there three loudspeaker warnings as the Park polices statement claims? The witnesses you cite seem to claim that the advance was made without warning.
A second question is did the smoke canisters contain pepper balls? The Park Police statement suggests the pepper balls were separate from the smoke canisters. The impression I get is they were fired from pepper ball guns and only used on those who forcefully resisted clearing the area after the police started their advance (as shown in the CNN video I cited.)
A third question is what is "largely peaceful"? Isn't it also an amazing coincidence that despite there being many peaceful protesters the past week, stores have been looted, windows have broken, buildings and cars have been lit on fire, and innocent people have been severely injured or killed. There probably were many peaceful protesters in Lafayette Square. But there are also good reasons to believe that among them were violent anarchists throwing projectiles including bricks, frozen water bottles and caustic liquids and attempting to grab officer's weapons, just as the Park Police statement claims.
A fourth question is whether the Park Police had intelligence information regarding planned violence against police. The "caches of glass bottles, baseball bats, and metal poles" that their statement claims were found hidden along the street suggests that violence was being planned by some set of the protesters.
A fifth question is were all the protesters within 30 minutes of being sheltered for the night, as they would have had to be home by 7 pm to satisfy the DC curfew? If protesters are refusing legitimate verbal commands to evacuate an area shortly before curfew they are not really peaceful protesters.
Common sense would dictate that a younger man than either Trump or Biden should become President of the United States. Living in the city of Philadelphia, where Democrats hold more than a 7 to 1 advantage in voter registration and are so blind that they put someone on the take from George Soros as our District Attorney, I can end up thinking like the majority, after having rubbed shoulders with them for a day. Yet this wicked city has a wonderful history, some vibrant churches, and lots of young people, including many young medical professionals. God has preserved my living and working in this area for the past 16 years.
Joe Biden has roots in the Philadelphia area, Today he came to our City Hall to speak. That resonates in this "swing state," although (in my judgment) his Party is awful.
Martin Luther called for the violent suppression of the peasants' rebellion in 1525, and we (we Protestants, at least) honor Martin Luther. God's Word tells us to pray "for all in authority (I Timothy 2:1-2)." We need to pray, because the USA has dug itself into a hole. "Come, Lord Jesus!"
The U.S. Park Police acknowledged that its officers used smoke and irritating pepper agents to clear protesters outside the White House on Monday before President Donald Trump walked to a historic church that was damaged by arson.
The police agency denied in a statement on Tuesday that it used “tear gas” to disperse the protesters, who it claimed — in contradiction to news coverage of the event — had attacked its officers. “Tear gas” is a colloquial term used to describe a variety of irritating crowd-control agents, including pepper spray.
Regarding tear gas, there is a firsthand account. Quote...
At 6:30 p.m., Slavin said officers suddenly burst forward past the barricade. A thick cloud descended over the crowd, he said, and armed officers on foot started firing rubber pellets at people.
“There was no warning, zero warning before the tear gas was fired,” Slavin said.
With a bandanna around his face, Slavin began coughing and felt the gas stinging his eyes. As he tried to break free from the crowd, canisters were dropped several feet away from him and exploded. These explosives were dropped in the middle of the crowd, within several feet of at least a hundred people or more, he said. Officers continued firing rubber pellets at protesters who were already backing up.
The Vox website ( https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/6/1/21277530/trump-speech-police-violence-dc-tear-gas ) shows a CNN video with the time 6:35 clearly visible just as I said. CNN was covering it live when the officers started to move forward and according to the Park Police released smoke canisters, not tear gas. Watch the live video, which is arguably more reliable than an eye witness, who may have assumed it was tear gas, just like the CNN announcer and NPR did. The video clearly shows what looks like riot police dressed in black with shields who were standing face to face with the crowd before suddenly moving forward followed shortly by releasing the smoke canisters.
One, only a little over two sentences of Trump's speech yesterday were about Mr. Floyd, and the rest dealt with violence and property description. No mention of the larger problem of too many black men getting killed or injured in police confrontations. Trump offered no answers.
Two, also in that speech yesterday, Trump said, "I am your president of law and order and an ally of all peaceful protesters," but those words rang immediately hollow by the violent actions against those peaceful protesters in Lafayette Park. The optics were terrible.
Three, the optics were even worse when police and Secret Service instigated a violent confrontation against Americans in that park, all for a photo op of a non-Christian standing in front of a church that he rarely attended, holding a book that he scarcely read.
Eric, I get tired of people in the news saying that"we need to have a conversation" and "this is not who we are''. How are you going to have a decent conversation with angry rioters and arsonists? They are not going to listen to President Trump no matter what he says. That is not going to change. Would they even listen to Jesus? Do they even believe?
I have to agree. I am not at all convinced that anyone is willing to have a conversation.
I've been in conversations with my liberal family members - we're an mish mash of political identities, some liberal, some hard core conservatives. Me? I'm unaffiliated because I don't think either party is really working for our country. In any case, the conversations start fairly calm and then, it turns into a 'who can win the what-about-isms'. The liberals point to Trump and his myriad flaws and the Conservatives throw Clinton and Obama back at them.
I think we've all attached too much of our individual self-worth and egos to whomever is seated in the WH; we take criticism of our chosen leader a bit too personally.
WTOP’s Neal Augenstein is reporting that the U.S. Park Police did not know President Trump would be walking to St. John’s church when the cleared the street in front of the White House yesterday 20 minutes before the curfew:
The U.S. Park Police is explaining its decision-making in clearing Lafayette Square, at least 20 minutes before DC's 7p curfew, on night 4 of protests.....the reason the crowd was disbursed with SMOKE CANNISTERS is that at that moment, officers were being pelted with water bottles. Another factor was that protesters had climbed on top of the structure at the north end of Lafayette Square that had been burned the day before.
A man stood in front of a type of building he rarely enters, holding a book he undoubtedly hasn’t read (except perhaps a verse from “Two Corinthians”), which is filled with guidance he doesn’t follow, all to appeal to a group of people who claim to do all three. And, all he had to do was gas some legal, peaceful protestors to make it happen.
How often are you privy to the President's private life and his reading of the Bible?
Many of us Christians do not attend formal church but love the Lord Jesus and live by His commands to His glory.
The Park Service used smoke cannisters on the rowdy crowd before they even knew the President was going to walk to the church.
Out of curiosity, which guidance in the Bible doesn't the President follow? As a note, there is not one single Christian who walks in perfection or even comes within a scintilla of ability to do so.
I cannot judge Donald Trump's relationship with Christianity - I don't know him and even if I did... that's not my place.
That said; in answer to your question about which guidance in the Bible doesn't the President follow...? I would say that James 3 verse 5 is starting point. Proverbs has a bit to say about the consequences of careless words.
I've heard all of the justifications for President Trump's injudicious words from those proclaiming a belief and faith in Jesus, to me, it seems that Belivers, above everyone else, should appreciate the power of words.
God spoke life into being; words are creative - they go a long way in creating our realities.
When Trump campaigned; he made a lot of noise about the 'fake news'. He called names, pointed to a female reporter during one of his rallies, calling her out in front of hundreds of supporters that were booing the press. He encouraged violence toward people that disrupted his rallies. He spoke lies about other politicians and their family members - Ephesian's 4:25?
President Trump has stated that he 'goes with his gut', when a decision has to be made
I'd point to Proverbs again - 12:15 or 28:26 as guidance from the Bible he seems to ignore.
I believe that President Trump's beneficial policies are and will be overlooked simply because he cannot get out of his own way, which makes many of us wonder if its his ego or his faith that guides him.
I hate to sound like some gooey sycophant, but I must unfortunately (for the President, not for agreeing) agree with your analysis. The "urge" of liberalism in our country is to go with feelings rather than actual thought. Feelings are important; but they should be used to grant us some validation to our analysis rather than motivating our action. Rehoboam was also a nice-and theologically accurate--touch. I will vote for the President again due to the fact my theology will not allow me to vote for the other party. Donald Trump is capable of doing good. Let us not forget, as believers, that the 2 Chronicles 7:14 prayer begins with a command of humility and prayer. It's a time for both to occur in earnest.
Here's a summary of all the tear gas, violent protester, photo-op lies from Monday, all in place.
https://thebulwark.com/the-tear-gas-hoax-hoax/
More on the FakeNews TearGasTrutherism.
https://twitter.com/NathanBacaTV/status/1268546711452094464
I wish he’d quit pouring gas on their fire. I think calm would help him about now.
Erick-Erick-Erick....sometimes you just can’t help yourself. Quit trying to straddle the fence. If President Trump had NOT visited the church everyone would criticize him (claim he was hiding in his bunker) If he took his motorcade they would have criticized him for wasting taxpayer $ and being elitist. So as usual he tried to defend the values our country was FOUNDED ON (in his usual odd and sometimes cringeworthy way) but gets hammered for doing it. Make no mistake, the tragic event in Minneapolis was disgusting. However, the opportunistic rioting and looting will leave a scar on this country forever. The timing couldn’t have been any worse with everyone trying to reopen businesses after the Coronavirus Pandemic. History tells us that great civilizations usually implode after 250 years. 7/4/20 will be our 244th birthday. Let that marinate for a while.....🤨
Regarding your update, Erick, I agree that the Park Service is blowing smoke. Pure gaslighting smoke.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/media/trump-demands-journalists-correct-stories-on-the-use-of-tear-gas-according-to-the-cdc-it-was-tear-gas/2020/06/02/bf68726c-a544-11ea-bb20-ebf0921f3bbd_story.html
Look at me!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/06/02/trump-wants-you-look-him/?arc404=true
What is the right use of persuasion?
Erick Erickson
"Using the Bible for a photo-op at a church after having tear gas fired off at nonviolent protesters to clear a path will win the President the votes of people who are already going to vote for him. He had the opportunity to move the needle with persuadable voters in a significant way and he did not.Says"
These two view points used to make persuasive points s are wrong.! I would rather the President us the Bible then Vladimir Lenin Bibliography. The left , the drive by media and socialist big business would love to hold it up as their flag of choice. This walk through the park area was a clear statement that he will not hide in fear and weak decision making. I wish he would have said words of encouragement while standing in front of the church holding ,not a prop,the Lord Jesus's words of truth the Bible.
Than what about those poor protesters standing at the face line. I don't know where you where getting the information perhaps,CNN, MSNBC, CBS or any of those alphabetical soup purveyors of distortion and flat out lies but that is not went down. These lovers of virtuous protesting had baseball bates and other implements of violent disorder stored along the face line. Ingraham of the Ingraham Angle was there and as she say no tear gas was used nor rubber bullets. She sad mace was used as she got some in her eyes. Then I as a watcher on TV I would have seen smoke as the President walk from the White House to the church location. I know you have a dislike for Trump and that is your choice but do if you can,be a seeker of the truth and get the right information. I get my senses filled up with enough lies and manipulation,
By the way, this is an official statement of the Park Police indicating what happened, that contradicts claim that no warnings were issued, that tear gas was fired, and that there was no violence on the part of protesters ( https://www.nps.gov/subjects/uspp/6_2_20_statement_from_acting_chief_monahan.htm ):
"On Monday, June 1, the USPP worked with the United States Secret Service to have temporary fencing installed inside Lafayette Park. At approximately 6:33 pm, violent protestors on H Street NW began throwing projectiles including bricks, frozen water bottles and caustic liquids. The protestors also climbed onto a historic building at the north end of Lafayette Park that was destroyed by arson days prior. Intelligence had revealed calls for violence against the police, and officers found caches of glass bottles, baseball bats and metal poles hidden along the street. [new #]To curtail the violence that was underway, the USPP, following established policy, issued three warnings over a loudspeaker to alert demonstrators on H Street to evacuate the area. Horse mounted patrol, Civil Disturbance Units and additional personnel were used to clear the area. As many of the protestors became more combative, continued to throw projectiles, and attempted to grab officers’ weapons, officers then employed the use of smoke canisters and pepper balls. No tear gas was used by USPP officers or other assisting law enforcement partners to close the area at Lafayette Park. Subsequently, the fence was installed. [new #]Throughout the demonstrations, the USPP has not made any arrests. The USPP will always support peaceful assembly but cannot tolerate violence to citizens or officers or damage to our nation’s resources that we are entrusted to protect."
From Forbes....
According to a fact sheet from the CDC, “tear gas” can be used as an umbrella term for various non-lethal riot control agents, including pepper spray.
According to multiple reports, the protests were largely peaceful until police officers used flash grenades and irritants to clear the group.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelsandler/2020/06/02/trump-campaign-says-tear-gas-wasnt-used-to-clear-protesters-cdc-guidelines-say-otherwise/#751aadb51b69
It's just this amazing coincidence that the Park Police claimed protester violence right when Barr was overseeing the clear-out, followed by Trump's stroll over to St. John's.
One question is were there three loudspeaker warnings as the Park polices statement claims? The witnesses you cite seem to claim that the advance was made without warning.
A second question is did the smoke canisters contain pepper balls? The Park Police statement suggests the pepper balls were separate from the smoke canisters. The impression I get is they were fired from pepper ball guns and only used on those who forcefully resisted clearing the area after the police started their advance (as shown in the CNN video I cited.)
A third question is what is "largely peaceful"? Isn't it also an amazing coincidence that despite there being many peaceful protesters the past week, stores have been looted, windows have broken, buildings and cars have been lit on fire, and innocent people have been severely injured or killed. There probably were many peaceful protesters in Lafayette Square. But there are also good reasons to believe that among them were violent anarchists throwing projectiles including bricks, frozen water bottles and caustic liquids and attempting to grab officer's weapons, just as the Park Police statement claims.
A fourth question is whether the Park Police had intelligence information regarding planned violence against police. The "caches of glass bottles, baseball bats, and metal poles" that their statement claims were found hidden along the street suggests that violence was being planned by some set of the protesters.
A fifth question is were all the protesters within 30 minutes of being sheltered for the night, as they would have had to be home by 7 pm to satisfy the DC curfew? If protesters are refusing legitimate verbal commands to evacuate an area shortly before curfew they are not really peaceful protesters.
Common sense would dictate that a younger man than either Trump or Biden should become President of the United States. Living in the city of Philadelphia, where Democrats hold more than a 7 to 1 advantage in voter registration and are so blind that they put someone on the take from George Soros as our District Attorney, I can end up thinking like the majority, after having rubbed shoulders with them for a day. Yet this wicked city has a wonderful history, some vibrant churches, and lots of young people, including many young medical professionals. God has preserved my living and working in this area for the past 16 years.
Joe Biden has roots in the Philadelphia area, Today he came to our City Hall to speak. That resonates in this "swing state," although (in my judgment) his Party is awful.
Martin Luther called for the violent suppression of the peasants' rebellion in 1525, and we (we Protestants, at least) honor Martin Luther. God's Word tells us to pray "for all in authority (I Timothy 2:1-2)." We need to pray, because the USA has dug itself into a hole. "Come, Lord Jesus!"
"Common sense would dictate that a younger man..." YES!
Tear gas update...
The U.S. Park Police acknowledged that its officers used smoke and irritating pepper agents to clear protesters outside the White House on Monday before President Donald Trump walked to a historic church that was damaged by arson.
The police agency denied in a statement on Tuesday that it used “tear gas” to disperse the protesters, who it claimed — in contradiction to news coverage of the event — had attacked its officers. “Tear gas” is a colloquial term used to describe a variety of irritating crowd-control agents, including pepper spray.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-02/police-say-they-used-pepper-spray-to-clear-protesters-for-trump?srnd=politics-vp&sref=6SIErc4i
Regarding tear gas, there is a firsthand account. Quote...
At 6:30 p.m., Slavin said officers suddenly burst forward past the barricade. A thick cloud descended over the crowd, he said, and armed officers on foot started firing rubber pellets at people.
“There was no warning, zero warning before the tear gas was fired,” Slavin said.
With a bandanna around his face, Slavin began coughing and felt the gas stinging his eyes. As he tried to break free from the crowd, canisters were dropped several feet away from him and exploded. These explosives were dropped in the middle of the crowd, within several feet of at least a hundred people or more, he said. Officers continued firing rubber pellets at protesters who were already backing up.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2020/06/02/dc-protest-george-floyd-white-house/
Park Police weren't the only folks there, and Secret Service wasn't talking.
The Vox website ( https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/6/1/21277530/trump-speech-police-violence-dc-tear-gas ) shows a CNN video with the time 6:35 clearly visible just as I said. CNN was covering it live when the officers started to move forward and according to the Park Police released smoke canisters, not tear gas. Watch the live video, which is arguably more reliable than an eye witness, who may have assumed it was tear gas, just like the CNN announcer and NPR did. The video clearly shows what looks like riot police dressed in black with shields who were standing face to face with the crowd before suddenly moving forward followed shortly by releasing the smoke canisters.
One, only a little over two sentences of Trump's speech yesterday were about Mr. Floyd, and the rest dealt with violence and property description. No mention of the larger problem of too many black men getting killed or injured in police confrontations. Trump offered no answers.
Two, also in that speech yesterday, Trump said, "I am your president of law and order and an ally of all peaceful protesters," but those words rang immediately hollow by the violent actions against those peaceful protesters in Lafayette Park. The optics were terrible.
Three, the optics were even worse when police and Secret Service instigated a violent confrontation against Americans in that park, all for a photo op of a non-Christian standing in front of a church that he rarely attended, holding a book that he scarcely read.
Eh, property destruction, not description. Oh for an edit button.
Eric, I get tired of people in the news saying that"we need to have a conversation" and "this is not who we are''. How are you going to have a decent conversation with angry rioters and arsonists? They are not going to listen to President Trump no matter what he says. That is not going to change. Would they even listen to Jesus? Do they even believe?
I have to agree. I am not at all convinced that anyone is willing to have a conversation.
I've been in conversations with my liberal family members - we're an mish mash of political identities, some liberal, some hard core conservatives. Me? I'm unaffiliated because I don't think either party is really working for our country. In any case, the conversations start fairly calm and then, it turns into a 'who can win the what-about-isms'. The liberals point to Trump and his myriad flaws and the Conservatives throw Clinton and Obama back at them.
I think we've all attached too much of our individual self-worth and egos to whomever is seated in the WH; we take criticism of our chosen leader a bit too personally.
Thank you, Vickie. My best to you and your family. Archie
WTOP’s Neal Augenstein is reporting that the U.S. Park Police did not know President Trump would be walking to St. John’s church when the cleared the street in front of the White House yesterday 20 minutes before the curfew:
The U.S. Park Police is explaining its decision-making in clearing Lafayette Square, at least 20 minutes before DC's 7p curfew, on night 4 of protests.....the reason the crowd was disbursed with SMOKE CANNISTERS is that at that moment, officers were being pelted with water bottles. Another factor was that protesters had climbed on top of the structure at the north end of Lafayette Square that had been burned the day before.
A man stood in front of a type of building he rarely enters, holding a book he undoubtedly hasn’t read (except perhaps a verse from “Two Corinthians”), which is filled with guidance he doesn’t follow, all to appeal to a group of people who claim to do all three. And, all he had to do was gas some legal, peaceful protestors to make it happen.
How often are you privy to the President's private life and his reading of the Bible?
Many of us Christians do not attend formal church but love the Lord Jesus and live by His commands to His glory.
The Park Service used smoke cannisters on the rowdy crowd before they even knew the President was going to walk to the church.
Out of curiosity, which guidance in the Bible doesn't the President follow? As a note, there is not one single Christian who walks in perfection or even comes within a scintilla of ability to do so.
I cannot judge Donald Trump's relationship with Christianity - I don't know him and even if I did... that's not my place.
That said; in answer to your question about which guidance in the Bible doesn't the President follow...? I would say that James 3 verse 5 is starting point. Proverbs has a bit to say about the consequences of careless words.
I've heard all of the justifications for President Trump's injudicious words from those proclaiming a belief and faith in Jesus, to me, it seems that Belivers, above everyone else, should appreciate the power of words.
God spoke life into being; words are creative - they go a long way in creating our realities.
When Trump campaigned; he made a lot of noise about the 'fake news'. He called names, pointed to a female reporter during one of his rallies, calling her out in front of hundreds of supporters that were booing the press. He encouraged violence toward people that disrupted his rallies. He spoke lies about other politicians and their family members - Ephesian's 4:25?
President Trump has stated that he 'goes with his gut', when a decision has to be made
I'd point to Proverbs again - 12:15 or 28:26 as guidance from the Bible he seems to ignore.
I believe that President Trump's beneficial policies are and will be overlooked simply because he cannot get out of his own way, which makes many of us wonder if its his ego or his faith that guides him.
I hate to sound like some gooey sycophant, but I must unfortunately (for the President, not for agreeing) agree with your analysis. The "urge" of liberalism in our country is to go with feelings rather than actual thought. Feelings are important; but they should be used to grant us some validation to our analysis rather than motivating our action. Rehoboam was also a nice-and theologically accurate--touch. I will vote for the President again due to the fact my theology will not allow me to vote for the other party. Donald Trump is capable of doing good. Let us not forget, as believers, that the 2 Chronicles 7:14 prayer begins with a command of humility and prayer. It's a time for both to occur in earnest.