No they shouldn't. I almost hit the roof when our city instituted this for city employees at an administrative level. There was no allowance for those who had had covid and frankly I think treating employees differently as to those who took the shot those who didn't breeds division. Some get more benefits if they make a certain health decision over those who for a variety of reasons choose differently. Some even have a doctor recommending against it due to their health situation. It may be a compromise over mandated shots but it's still not a good idea. What about those who took the shot back in the beginning and now the efficacy is waning and they may get covid or just spread. Do we now incentivize for the booster? and the booster after that. Where does this end? No mandates and no compromise on personal health decisions. If hospitals want to not be overrun then they need to start promoting health and boosting immunity and then early treatment instead of "here take this and come back when you get worse and we can put you on a ventilator since we aren't using or promoting a variety of good options for early treatment". We have more and more of us here locally who got covid some a lot worse than others but were able to be treated and monitored at home with early treatment and kept us all out of the hospital. We plan to help friends and family in the same way. I'm sick of hearing about people dying in the hospital who may have never ended up there had testing gotten done ASAP after onset of symptoms and then immediate intervention from medical folks who are not beholden to big medical and have researched and networked with other doctors even in other countries and have a clue about how to treat this wicked virus and how to adjust treatment based on the patient's individual symptom and needs. In the mean time get your D up above 50 and have pertinent early treatment items already on hand and know what doctor (we are making a list) you may need to call who knows what they heck they're doing and isn't afraid to use their brain and the science they learned and are still learning.
Now Erick wants everyone to take a PCR test to be able to prove that they aren't infected. Guess he hasn't looked up Kary Mullis the inventor of the PCR test and nobel prize winner for the test. He said it can be misused and misinterpreted for infectious diseases like this and used to create false positives. Mr. Mullis was also one of the biggest critics of fauci going back to the 90's and in one of his videos said that fauci doesn't know anything about anything and I'll tell that to his face. While you're at it, look up the solari report where you can find drafts of legal docs that will put your employer on the hook if they require you to take a shot that isn't FDA approved and things go wrong. While you're researching, might as well look at the Vaers database to see how many adverse reactions have been reported, keeping in mind that historically only around 4% of adverse reactions get reported.
This is pretty much how my employer operates. Positive test, whether vaxxed or not, gets up to 10 work days paid leave. Vaccines STRONGLY encouraged but not mandated. So no real penalty for not being vaxxed. This is a liberal company that runs a certain tv network many of you here probably hate.
Not all jobs have a work from home element. The trades are an excellent example where they can't "telwwork" to accomplish work. While I don't like the idea or forcing people or punishing them or bribing them to take the vaccine, there does need to be a middle ground. Many of your suggestions fit a certain type of work force, but not all.
Erick - if your company is subject to new OSHA's emergency regulations issued in June (mostly geared toward health care facilities or practices) you must pay all employees for the time to get vaccinated, tested, if they have to quarantine (regardless of where they may have been exposed) or time off if they get sick, regardless of vaccination status, I think the progressives are trying to destroy the health care system so the introduced state care!
Erick, thanks for the idea. However, it is still appears to be a pressuring and discriminating policy. For those that have natural immunity or good reason not to vaccinate, you are suggesting they have a different employee class. Many recent studies (check out what's going on in Israel) have shown that after vaccination, the incidence of Covid is higher if not far higher among vaccinated than the unvaccinated. Perhaps these are less severe cases, but still this group is driving the numbers. Without getting into the science, if your assumption that vaccinated employees will be less sick and therefore more productive may be flawed.
And Dr. Robert Malone's work could help explain this. I looked him up after hearing about him from earlier comments. I'd never heard of him and it seems that is a bit intentional. From what little I read, he explains why vaccinated people can get re-infected. What irritates me as that a leading doctor's input into this is hidden, pushed aside because it doesn't fit the narrative. We are adults in what used to be a free nation. Give us all the information and let us decide. Vaccine mandates, the unending masking of kids and young adults, the silencing of unapproved views, the effects of trying to stay alive for more years by avoiding covid but disregarding the costs of what we are doing to our children, our nation, our republic in order to 'shield' us from this virus - I think the 'cure' is worse than the disease.
Not a perfect idea, Erick, but better than what’s occurring now in the workplace. There needs to be a mutually viable solution, in order to move forward and have a healthy economy doing so.
You make way too much sense. They'll never go for it. Have you ever thought about running for office? You can start with governor them move up from there. Governor Erickson has a wonderful ring to it. Or, better yet you can move to Ohio and run here.
Having said that... first, employers must have the freedom to do as they see fit. Whatever they believe is to the best interest of their business.
Whether that is 'mandating vaccination', which in reality means: Hey, to work here these are the requirements: A bachelors degree, 5 years of experience, level expertise in tool A, Covid vaccinated....
Second, consider this: we already tried the 'recommendation with a honor system' approach, and it did not work. We did it with masks when employers said, "if you are vaccinated, you can stop wearing a mask, if you are not, then please wear a mask"... and we started seeing many non-vaccinated taking advantage of the new policy and not wearing a mask.
Dr Malone is definitely in the minority but is certainly using his contribution to mRNA delivery techniques to claim a level of credibility on this that people who are skeptical are gravitating to.
The thing is, he isn't saying "Don't get the vaccine". He says that it doesn't make sense for EVERYONE to get it. And that does make sense. He got the vaccine. He says, logically, that those who have had the virus and recovered don't need it. He says people under 18 don't need it. That also makes sense. He says many younger, healthy people don't need it. That makes sense. So he makes more sense than the "consensus" that everyone should get it.
No they shouldn't. I almost hit the roof when our city instituted this for city employees at an administrative level. There was no allowance for those who had had covid and frankly I think treating employees differently as to those who took the shot those who didn't breeds division. Some get more benefits if they make a certain health decision over those who for a variety of reasons choose differently. Some even have a doctor recommending against it due to their health situation. It may be a compromise over mandated shots but it's still not a good idea. What about those who took the shot back in the beginning and now the efficacy is waning and they may get covid or just spread. Do we now incentivize for the booster? and the booster after that. Where does this end? No mandates and no compromise on personal health decisions. If hospitals want to not be overrun then they need to start promoting health and boosting immunity and then early treatment instead of "here take this and come back when you get worse and we can put you on a ventilator since we aren't using or promoting a variety of good options for early treatment". We have more and more of us here locally who got covid some a lot worse than others but were able to be treated and monitored at home with early treatment and kept us all out of the hospital. We plan to help friends and family in the same way. I'm sick of hearing about people dying in the hospital who may have never ended up there had testing gotten done ASAP after onset of symptoms and then immediate intervention from medical folks who are not beholden to big medical and have researched and networked with other doctors even in other countries and have a clue about how to treat this wicked virus and how to adjust treatment based on the patient's individual symptom and needs. In the mean time get your D up above 50 and have pertinent early treatment items already on hand and know what doctor (we are making a list) you may need to call who knows what they heck they're doing and isn't afraid to use their brain and the science they learned and are still learning.
Great ideas!
Now Erick wants everyone to take a PCR test to be able to prove that they aren't infected. Guess he hasn't looked up Kary Mullis the inventor of the PCR test and nobel prize winner for the test. He said it can be misused and misinterpreted for infectious diseases like this and used to create false positives. Mr. Mullis was also one of the biggest critics of fauci going back to the 90's and in one of his videos said that fauci doesn't know anything about anything and I'll tell that to his face. While you're at it, look up the solari report where you can find drafts of legal docs that will put your employer on the hook if they require you to take a shot that isn't FDA approved and things go wrong. While you're researching, might as well look at the Vaers database to see how many adverse reactions have been reported, keeping in mind that historically only around 4% of adverse reactions get reported.
This is pretty much how my employer operates. Positive test, whether vaxxed or not, gets up to 10 work days paid leave. Vaccines STRONGLY encouraged but not mandated. So no real penalty for not being vaxxed. This is a liberal company that runs a certain tv network many of you here probably hate.
Not all jobs have a work from home element. The trades are an excellent example where they can't "telwwork" to accomplish work. While I don't like the idea or forcing people or punishing them or bribing them to take the vaccine, there does need to be a middle ground. Many of your suggestions fit a certain type of work force, but not all.
Erick - if your company is subject to new OSHA's emergency regulations issued in June (mostly geared toward health care facilities or practices) you must pay all employees for the time to get vaccinated, tested, if they have to quarantine (regardless of where they may have been exposed) or time off if they get sick, regardless of vaccination status, I think the progressives are trying to destroy the health care system so the introduced state care!
What would you do with those employees who refuse to have the test?
Good suggestion, Erick.
So be flexible, good plan.
Erick, thanks for the idea. However, it is still appears to be a pressuring and discriminating policy. For those that have natural immunity or good reason not to vaccinate, you are suggesting they have a different employee class. Many recent studies (check out what's going on in Israel) have shown that after vaccination, the incidence of Covid is higher if not far higher among vaccinated than the unvaccinated. Perhaps these are less severe cases, but still this group is driving the numbers. Without getting into the science, if your assumption that vaccinated employees will be less sick and therefore more productive may be flawed.
And Dr. Robert Malone's work could help explain this. I looked him up after hearing about him from earlier comments. I'd never heard of him and it seems that is a bit intentional. From what little I read, he explains why vaccinated people can get re-infected. What irritates me as that a leading doctor's input into this is hidden, pushed aside because it doesn't fit the narrative. We are adults in what used to be a free nation. Give us all the information and let us decide. Vaccine mandates, the unending masking of kids and young adults, the silencing of unapproved views, the effects of trying to stay alive for more years by avoiding covid but disregarding the costs of what we are doing to our children, our nation, our republic in order to 'shield' us from this virus - I think the 'cure' is worse than the disease.
Nice to see some common sense instead of polarizing alternatives, like "My way or the highway".
To me there is already a binary choice get the vaccine or get covid.
Not a perfect idea, Erick, but better than what’s occurring now in the workplace. There needs to be a mutually viable solution, in order to move forward and have a healthy economy doing so.
You make way too much sense. They'll never go for it. Have you ever thought about running for office? You can start with governor them move up from there. Governor Erickson has a wonderful ring to it. Or, better yet you can move to Ohio and run here.
Nice recommendations, worth considering.
Having said that... first, employers must have the freedom to do as they see fit. Whatever they believe is to the best interest of their business.
Whether that is 'mandating vaccination', which in reality means: Hey, to work here these are the requirements: A bachelors degree, 5 years of experience, level expertise in tool A, Covid vaccinated....
Second, consider this: we already tried the 'recommendation with a honor system' approach, and it did not work. We did it with masks when employers said, "if you are vaccinated, you can stop wearing a mask, if you are not, then please wear a mask"... and we started seeing many non-vaccinated taking advantage of the new policy and not wearing a mask.
It is the sad reality.
Dr. Robert Malone said we cannot vaccinate into the teeth of a pandemic.
Who is he to say this?
Guess who invented the technique of this type of vaccine?
The inventor of the core mRNA vaccine technologies (including the idea of mRNA vaccines) and RNA transfection, Dr. Malone has extensive research
Just listen to what he offers as a path forward.
Dr Malone is definitely in the minority but is certainly using his contribution to mRNA delivery techniques to claim a level of credibility on this that people who are skeptical are gravitating to.
The thing is, he isn't saying "Don't get the vaccine". He says that it doesn't make sense for EVERYONE to get it. And that does make sense. He got the vaccine. He says, logically, that those who have had the virus and recovered don't need it. He says people under 18 don't need it. That also makes sense. He says many younger, healthy people don't need it. That makes sense. So he makes more sense than the "consensus" that everyone should get it.