I have written about this more than once, but I will do it again. It reminds me of the old joke about the church looking for a new pastor. They vetted several and finally found a guy who stood in the pulpit and just hit it out of the park. So the church invites the guy back the next week to hear him again, and, word for word, the pastor gives the same sermon again. The deacons are perplexed. They think he must have had a bad day. Something was clearly off. So they invited him back one more time.
"Don't be a jackass" is a fantastic bit of advice!
But I see two actors here. One is real jackassery and the other is justified defense of the damage caused by the real jackasses.
The real jackasses are really behaving in ways that are evil. I define evil as knowingly and purposely causing unnecessarily harm to others. Unfortunately the people with the holier-than-thou opinion of themselves... believing their harm to others is justified as some moral calling... they often don't get beat back without a lot of defensive jackassery.
Think about it. People believing they walk on rarified air of high morality pushing policies and actions that specifically but unnecessarily harm others. If you treat those people as having respectably opinions, they just keep harming others.
I think defensive jackassery is not only acceptable in these cases, but is advised. Otherwise, if it is just harmless difference of opinion, then yes... don't be a jackass.
Too right, Erick. Sadly, much of America has become fraught with self-righteous indignation. It's easy to blame it on social media saturation, but I think being judgemental readily fulfills the self-centered ego very nicely. Youtube is populated with hundreds of religious-sounding people who's "Ministry" is focused entirely on demeaning and pronouncing damnation upon any Christian Minister (especially the successful) who has even driven past and waved at a non-Christian, or worse, a person who made a statement in their ministry which could be taken out of context and distorted into some imagined proof of their heresy. Any person would have been honored to be a friend of Tim Keller; not only was he an extraordinarily gifted minister of the Word of God, he was a true every-day Christian who recognized and followed that Jesus was also accused and berated for befriending non-religious people. I'm 71, have taught Bible to adults for more than 40 years in a Baptist Church; I may not have agreed with every word spoken by Tim Keller but I would have been honored to be in the same room as him. An old statement implying honor to a saint of God is "I couldn't tote his Bible." That's how I feel about Timothy Keller. In John 13:34-35, Jesus said we are to love one another, especially our Christian siblings. He wasn't kidding.
Almost three quarters of a century ago my grandfather told me no one would call a person an SOB unless the person asked to be called one. It seems to me the same wisdom applies to a person being called a jackass. As Erick said, "it's a choice."
Unfortunately, there are some whose Christianity consists of criticizing what everyone who disagrees with them. Sometimes it can be very hateful. It is one thing to disagree with someone gracefully, and another to condemn them. Too many have made a sport of the latter thanks to social media. And they wonder why non-Christians are not attracted to their faith.
Thank you for reiterating this once again. It is something I remind myself of often. Around the house I will at times "go off" on something or some one. My wife will give me one of those looks and say, "you can't go out there and say that". I tell her I know, but if I don't let it out here, I might go off in public. Thank God for her as my safety valve.
I agree with you completely Erick. Somewhere along the line thinking, caring people have decided that the strategies of the left are working so we should use them too. The professor’s wife only hurt her own message with her behavior. No matter how offensive the proHamas defenders are we cannot give into that. Sadly too, cancel culture has ruined discourse so you can’t have a thoughtful discussion or debate without it devolving into yelling and accusations.
I want to hear “Well done” not “What were you thinking?”
This is NOT justification but an observation: Many of those jackasses behave that way because they HAVE been quiet and are tired of turning the other cheek. I get it. But I also think many "Christians" would emulate the Pharisees were they to actually hang out with Jesus on a day-to-day basis. Loving your neighbor is as inclusive as our right to free speech in that both are aimed at ALL people, including those we find despicable.
The first part would be a great topic for a sermon. Don’t just go to church, Bible studies, etc, but actually live the religious life. No cafeteria Christians.
I sympathize with that. It’s just really difficult to hold back when all it takes is one or two leaders to adopt immoral policies as normal in the church. Such as Andy Stanley fully acknowledging the LGBTJKIHB agenda in his church. You feel betrayed angry and upset.
The rest of the congregation is not like that and we know it. So what are we to do?
Should we not tell the emperor he has no clothes on?
I don’t think we should adopt a policy of “be quiet” and take it. Or silently protesting by changing churches.
The more ground we give the more likely it is that it becomes the norm. And the gay agenda being accepted in church should not become the norm.
As for the person screaming at the Palestinian wearing person, I get were she’s coming from. That frustration overflows and might I add even Jesus lost his temper.
I say instead we must be vigilant and speak up but also control that anger so it doesn’t turn into hate. Or worse violence. Let them be the bad people please. We don’t need to become them.
My main problem with Andy is he doesn't believe in the inerrancy of scripture. I've listened to enough of his sermons to know he likes to pick and choose what he believes. Hearing that from the pulpit is disappointing.
Amen brother. Being a true Christian is not sitting back and expecting God to do all the work. God can and does work through us. We must put on the sword and shield of righteousness and go to battle against evil. But we MUST do so prayerfully. We cannot substitute our personal anger for God's purpose. I am unable to reconcile Erick's words on these topics. Sometimes he appears to want people to take a back seat, do nothing and expect God to do all the heavy lifting. But that doesn't reconcile with the fact that Erick is definitely out there fighting the good fight on a daily basis in writing and on the air.
I'm not up to speed with Andy's position on this, but I've long been impressed by him. Is he accepting the LBGTQ community in his church, or is he adopting their agenda? There's a big difference. Adopting their agenda? Yes, I would have a problem with it. Welcoming them into the church? Not a problem. My issue with Christians rejecting LGBTQs for being sinners is that they conveniently forget that Paul says ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. When a Christian can tell me how "all" doesn't apply to them, I'm willing to listen. This is another area where I believe many Christians would actually turn on Christ Himself were they to see how He handled this issue.
I originally tried *not* to like Andy Stanley, because I thought liking him was cliché. When I really started listening to him, though, there was very little on which I disagreed with him. His ministry is reaching the unchurched, the skeptics, the outsiders, and getting them to step foot in the church and consider following Jesus. Even though I don't listen to Stanley frequently, and I've only read one of his books, his message resonates with me, as a natural skeptic.
Andy and all churches have always been “accepting” of any sinners. The problem is these churches have now turned the gay agenda into canonical worship for the Bible. In other words saying it’s not a sin to be gay and it’s ok to be in a gay marriage so long as you hold to other Christian beliefs which is a very dangerous thing to teach.
This is a great video on what Andy said and why it was wrong.
In short yes Andy has now turned northpoint into an affirming church. Aka gay marriage is ok. Being gay is normal and you can enter into a same sex relationship so long as you are a good Christian.
Unfortunately this is a trend we are seeing across all churches. My point was do we sit back and be silent or are we not allowed to say “this isn’t right”. Too many times this has gone through and nobody says anything.
But I agree we need not turn this into a shouting match. However if it’s wrong I’m going to call it what it is and call it out. I won’t be violent.
I'm covered up at the moment, but I'll certainly watch the video. However, I have no reason to doubt that what you say is true. If so, that's disappointing.
Andy is not a bad guy. And what allot of people have said about him after this that he’s some sort of a monster is not true.
I still listen to his sermons as they have some meaning. but I won’t go to his church or donate.
I got to mount pisgah which along with 436 other churches in Georgia has taken a stand against the reformation church and broke from the woke.
I respect Andy’s teachings but on this I won’t compromise my beliefs. He was wrong and NP is wrong.
When I started going to Andy’s church in 2002 they had a very clear stance on that topic. You were welcome to come but they hoped you would reform. Even had a recovering lgbtq group to help people turn away.
But you were not allowed to volunteer in wamba land or any of the youth groups nor hold any leadership positions. And if a teen came out as gay they tried to reform them not allow it. If they refused as some did they were told they could no longer be a part of the youth group but could still come to church.
Now it is not like that.
My daughter was in their youth groups upstreet then transit. And when she got to transit, there was a group of females, one of whom asked her on a date. Aka she was openly gay. My daughter was upset and went to leadership because she wanted to change groups and my daughter was the one who got in trouble because she wanted to change groups and they thought that she was being a bigot. It is now overly taken over by that group. Almost all the inside out pastors are gay and/or transgender.
So while Andy was very obtuse and evasive about what the churches agenda was in his speech , it’s very clear where this is going.
I rambled on a bit but the point is, we need not be silent. We must stand in unison and say no.
Andy Stanley has welcomed LBGTQs into his congregation for many years. However, he would not allow them into leadership positions within the church. I think that might have changed, which is causing a big turmoil.
Again, I highly recommend Not In It To Win It by Andy Stanley. I plan to read it a couple more times before the election, just to remind myself that Jesus is my King and that my salvation doesn't lie in anyone running for office.
"Don't be a jackass" is a fantastic bit of advice!
But I see two actors here. One is real jackassery and the other is justified defense of the damage caused by the real jackasses.
The real jackasses are really behaving in ways that are evil. I define evil as knowingly and purposely causing unnecessarily harm to others. Unfortunately the people with the holier-than-thou opinion of themselves... believing their harm to others is justified as some moral calling... they often don't get beat back without a lot of defensive jackassery.
Think about it. People believing they walk on rarified air of high morality pushing policies and actions that specifically but unnecessarily harm others. If you treat those people as having respectably opinions, they just keep harming others.
I think defensive jackassery is not only acceptable in these cases, but is advised. Otherwise, if it is just harmless difference of opinion, then yes... don't be a jackass.
Too right, Erick. Sadly, much of America has become fraught with self-righteous indignation. It's easy to blame it on social media saturation, but I think being judgemental readily fulfills the self-centered ego very nicely. Youtube is populated with hundreds of religious-sounding people who's "Ministry" is focused entirely on demeaning and pronouncing damnation upon any Christian Minister (especially the successful) who has even driven past and waved at a non-Christian, or worse, a person who made a statement in their ministry which could be taken out of context and distorted into some imagined proof of their heresy. Any person would have been honored to be a friend of Tim Keller; not only was he an extraordinarily gifted minister of the Word of God, he was a true every-day Christian who recognized and followed that Jesus was also accused and berated for befriending non-religious people. I'm 71, have taught Bible to adults for more than 40 years in a Baptist Church; I may not have agreed with every word spoken by Tim Keller but I would have been honored to be in the same room as him. An old statement implying honor to a saint of God is "I couldn't tote his Bible." That's how I feel about Timothy Keller. In John 13:34-35, Jesus said we are to love one another, especially our Christian siblings. He wasn't kidding.
Very well said. We are the church. Go and represent that church the way Jesus would want us to.
Amen Erick
Or, default to Grace.
Almost three quarters of a century ago my grandfather told me no one would call a person an SOB unless the person asked to be called one. It seems to me the same wisdom applies to a person being called a jackass. As Erick said, "it's a choice."
And those we elect are mirror images of ourselves (well..some of us) in word & deed.
Oh no they are not.
Unfortunately, there are some whose Christianity consists of criticizing what everyone who disagrees with them. Sometimes it can be very hateful. It is one thing to disagree with someone gracefully, and another to condemn them. Too many have made a sport of the latter thanks to social media. And they wonder why non-Christians are not attracted to their faith.
Thank you for reiterating this once again. It is something I remind myself of often. Around the house I will at times "go off" on something or some one. My wife will give me one of those looks and say, "you can't go out there and say that". I tell her I know, but if I don't let it out here, I might go off in public. Thank God for her as my safety valve.
HAHAHAHA!!!! Sounds like your wife and mine would get along quite well!
I sense The Christ would be pleased with you Erick...
I agree with you completely Erick. Somewhere along the line thinking, caring people have decided that the strategies of the left are working so we should use them too. The professor’s wife only hurt her own message with her behavior. No matter how offensive the proHamas defenders are we cannot give into that. Sadly too, cancel culture has ruined discourse so you can’t have a thoughtful discussion or debate without it devolving into yelling and accusations.
I want to hear “Well done” not “What were you thinking?”
This is NOT justification but an observation: Many of those jackasses behave that way because they HAVE been quiet and are tired of turning the other cheek. I get it. But I also think many "Christians" would emulate the Pharisees were they to actually hang out with Jesus on a day-to-day basis. Loving your neighbor is as inclusive as our right to free speech in that both are aimed at ALL people, including those we find despicable.
The first part would be a great topic for a sermon. Don’t just go to church, Bible studies, etc, but actually live the religious life. No cafeteria Christians.
Once again, another PSA. Thank you.
I sympathize with that. It’s just really difficult to hold back when all it takes is one or two leaders to adopt immoral policies as normal in the church. Such as Andy Stanley fully acknowledging the LGBTJKIHB agenda in his church. You feel betrayed angry and upset.
The rest of the congregation is not like that and we know it. So what are we to do?
Should we not tell the emperor he has no clothes on?
I don’t think we should adopt a policy of “be quiet” and take it. Or silently protesting by changing churches.
The more ground we give the more likely it is that it becomes the norm. And the gay agenda being accepted in church should not become the norm.
As for the person screaming at the Palestinian wearing person, I get were she’s coming from. That frustration overflows and might I add even Jesus lost his temper.
I say instead we must be vigilant and speak up but also control that anger so it doesn’t turn into hate. Or worse violence. Let them be the bad people please. We don’t need to become them.
My main problem with Andy is he doesn't believe in the inerrancy of scripture. I've listened to enough of his sermons to know he likes to pick and choose what he believes. Hearing that from the pulpit is disappointing.
Amen brother. Being a true Christian is not sitting back and expecting God to do all the work. God can and does work through us. We must put on the sword and shield of righteousness and go to battle against evil. But we MUST do so prayerfully. We cannot substitute our personal anger for God's purpose. I am unable to reconcile Erick's words on these topics. Sometimes he appears to want people to take a back seat, do nothing and expect God to do all the heavy lifting. But that doesn't reconcile with the fact that Erick is definitely out there fighting the good fight on a daily basis in writing and on the air.
I'm not up to speed with Andy's position on this, but I've long been impressed by him. Is he accepting the LBGTQ community in his church, or is he adopting their agenda? There's a big difference. Adopting their agenda? Yes, I would have a problem with it. Welcoming them into the church? Not a problem. My issue with Christians rejecting LGBTQs for being sinners is that they conveniently forget that Paul says ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. When a Christian can tell me how "all" doesn't apply to them, I'm willing to listen. This is another area where I believe many Christians would actually turn on Christ Himself were they to see how He handled this issue.
I originally tried *not* to like Andy Stanley, because I thought liking him was cliché. When I really started listening to him, though, there was very little on which I disagreed with him. His ministry is reaching the unchurched, the skeptics, the outsiders, and getting them to step foot in the church and consider following Jesus. Even though I don't listen to Stanley frequently, and I've only read one of his books, his message resonates with me, as a natural skeptic.
Andy and all churches have always been “accepting” of any sinners. The problem is these churches have now turned the gay agenda into canonical worship for the Bible. In other words saying it’s not a sin to be gay and it’s ok to be in a gay marriage so long as you hold to other Christian beliefs which is a very dangerous thing to teach.
This is a great video on what Andy said and why it was wrong.
https://youtu.be/0x5FUG1kxvI?si=gWglgrP_gr4YOH8s
In short yes Andy has now turned northpoint into an affirming church. Aka gay marriage is ok. Being gay is normal and you can enter into a same sex relationship so long as you are a good Christian.
Unfortunately this is a trend we are seeing across all churches. My point was do we sit back and be silent or are we not allowed to say “this isn’t right”. Too many times this has gone through and nobody says anything.
But I agree we need not turn this into a shouting match. However if it’s wrong I’m going to call it what it is and call it out. I won’t be violent.
I'm covered up at the moment, but I'll certainly watch the video. However, I have no reason to doubt that what you say is true. If so, that's disappointing.
Andy is not a bad guy. And what allot of people have said about him after this that he’s some sort of a monster is not true.
I still listen to his sermons as they have some meaning. but I won’t go to his church or donate.
I got to mount pisgah which along with 436 other churches in Georgia has taken a stand against the reformation church and broke from the woke.
I respect Andy’s teachings but on this I won’t compromise my beliefs. He was wrong and NP is wrong.
When I started going to Andy’s church in 2002 they had a very clear stance on that topic. You were welcome to come but they hoped you would reform. Even had a recovering lgbtq group to help people turn away.
But you were not allowed to volunteer in wamba land or any of the youth groups nor hold any leadership positions. And if a teen came out as gay they tried to reform them not allow it. If they refused as some did they were told they could no longer be a part of the youth group but could still come to church.
Now it is not like that.
My daughter was in their youth groups upstreet then transit. And when she got to transit, there was a group of females, one of whom asked her on a date. Aka she was openly gay. My daughter was upset and went to leadership because she wanted to change groups and my daughter was the one who got in trouble because she wanted to change groups and they thought that she was being a bigot. It is now overly taken over by that group. Almost all the inside out pastors are gay and/or transgender.
So while Andy was very obtuse and evasive about what the churches agenda was in his speech , it’s very clear where this is going.
I rambled on a bit but the point is, we need not be silent. We must stand in unison and say no.
Andy Stanley has welcomed LBGTQs into his congregation for many years. However, he would not allow them into leadership positions within the church. I think that might have changed, which is causing a big turmoil.
And that I could understand.
Great piece, Erick. I'll pass it on.
Again, I highly recommend Not In It To Win It by Andy Stanley. I plan to read it a couple more times before the election, just to remind myself that Jesus is my King and that my salvation doesn't lie in anyone running for office.