There was no way Gruden could lead a team after this. You guys sound ridiculous. These emails were not found by someone scouring the internet. The emails were part of an investigation into the Washington football team and allegations of malfeasance and were correspondence between him and Bruce Allen the president of the team who is also brother of the former republican gov of Va George Allen. He just happened to get caught up in the dragnet. He should be fired. There is no way he could lead a team after theses remarks show how he truly feels about minority groups. This wasn't just locker room talk. He canceled himself. There were other heavy hitters on the email such as the ceo of PDQ chicken and the head of the outback bowl among others. He felt comfortable enough to talk about people in such a fashion in front of his friends and one could reasonably presume that they agree with his sentiments if they did not call him out for it. Cmon guys...you cant defend this.
Adreed. I have been a member of units during my 20 years in the military whose unity, morale, and cohesion were destroyed by that one person whom was neither respected nor as a result, trusted. Only the removal of that person allowed the healing to begin. So it is here. "Cancel culture", or any other leftist notion has nothing to do with this; as you noted, Gruden canceled himself. Raiders' owner Mark Davis knew full well that his team, for which there are very high expectations this season, would be destroyed from within were Gruden to be kept on as head coach. He was allowed to "resign" as sort of a face saving move for him, which is probably more than he deserved.
One more time: When you press or click "send" (or here, "Post"), it's gone FOREVER. It can never be undone. Gruden is a good coach, and hopefully he'll get another chance, although that won't and shouldn't happen soon; he needs time for a little introspectition and contrition.
Obviously, there’s a lesson that one must not put in emails even to friends their candid thoughts if said thoughts might be deemed offensive or use vulgar language and slurs.
I hope you mean this in the sense of "the elites lesson is..."
or have we reached the point of no return, we have thought control. Of course the problem is, like mint juleps and plantain partys, every thing we do and say is judged by constantly moving set of criteria.
Even today's useful idiots will be sacrificed one day because there will always be someone who believes more devout. Of course the only way to prove you are more devout is to find someone less devot, and kill them.
We are witnessing the inevitable results of the left's decades long assault presented boldly and with impunity.
So.....revealing my age, long gone is the idea that created the children's rhyme "sticks and stones may break my bones BUT words will never hurt me." How weak and ineffective is a culture that cannot endure the insults and critical statements of others. Certainly we should speak kindly and generously to others if at all possible BUT when we don't how does one become so weak as to allow that person to define us by their words? Oh wait! You cannot control a society that does not allow you to define them. Good job on the engineers of this weak culture, they have succeeded well to this point in it's implementation. And wouldn't you like to know Roger Goodell's thoughts on John Gruden as he discovered what John really thought about him. I'm sure he would not want them published in their most raw edition. True hypocrites, true humanity!
I do not watch pro football much-College football is what I love, however I completely agree with your comments about Jon Gruden. How patently absurd that some pajama boy who has it in for Gruden has TIME to scour through who knows how many obscure emails to even FIND something to manufacture something to be OFFENDED over, to get the man fired! I do know that he was pursued, hounded and begged to come OUT of retirement to take that job! It is NONE of anyone's business what the man says to the recipient in a PRIVATE email! This truly is 1984, Brave New World, Big Brother, We the Living,etc, etc. The THOUGHT police, let alone the speech police are alive and well. I beleive you are right that there willl be a HUGE backlash!
I do agree with another comment that it was imprudent to use any company email, even if one thought it was a private communication. I have told countless people NEVER to use company email, phones, etc. to communicate anything but company businesss and information.
It has been quite a while since anyone in the sports world recognized that the spotlight is on, even when off the field. Of course, doesn't seem to matter to them that their on-field behavior is often egregious as well, but certainly "personal life" is off limits in their thinking. The very idea of being a positive "role model" (as in clean-cut, moral example) as an athlete, coach or commentator is taken as an onerous burden when, in fact, they truly are being viewed by many as a model for them to exemplify. The ubiquity of the Internet encroaches into private lives with unlimited memory. Whether appropriate or not, it is the reality.
OTOH, this presumes that Genesis 3 never occurred, that humans truly should be viewed as sterling models for how to live, which is clearly not true. There was a time when, even knowing Gen. 3's impact, many athletes like Jackie Robinson sought to be the best model possible to young people (and old). Those days are gone, anyone can publicly assassinate another with such information whether that information relates to their performance or not. As Erick opines, don't put anything in writing even in personal emails -- someone will eventually get a hold of it and weaponize it. Those on bully pulpits or in public eye are particularly vulnerable, but any of us can find ourselves on the wrong side of Human Resources for expressing Biblical stances that trigger the woke who appear to have time to sift through online garbage in search of ammo for personally attacking others.
So very sad it has come to this for John Gruden. An excellent coach and sports caster. WHO HAS THIS JOB OF SITTING IN THEIR BASEMENT SEARCHING YEARS OF EMAILS. SICK!!
This is the most ridiculous Adult (loosely used) Action to punish or even make a issue under these circumstance. Dear God 🙏 We Need Serious Help here on Earth.
The Elites will punish anyone for any perceived slight regardless of when said slight was uttered or entered into written record - Brett Kavanaugh comes to mind.
Not quite so, Vandalii; to do that would truly be a chilling restraint of our free speech rights, which is something we both know the left seeks whenever possible. This case is different; there's no way that what Jon Gruden wrote was other than what it was; insensitive, damaging to the morale and cohesion of the team, and sinful to boot.
Hmmm. Mixed feelings. My simple takeaway: Cancel Culture sucks and should be cancelled; and Gruden is an idiot but probably should not have been cancelled.
I'll keep defending the Raiders here. Mark Davis had no choice but to show Gruden the door; his comments were very destructive to the cohesion and morale of the Raiders team, and couldn't simply be allowed to stand. If we must seek and identify a real bad actor here, it would be whoever got his hands on those emails and decided for whatever reason, probably some deep seated person animus towards Gruden, decided to make them public. Everything else was predictable and inevitable.
I don't disagree, but Gruden DID send the emails. Even in 2011 it was unwise to publish (email is technically publishing) that kind of offensive language. The question for me now is, who's next?
And no, I am not convinced that the NFL stumbled upon those emails while sorting through Washington's stuff. I'm sure someone, possibly trying to deflect the league investigator's attention, possibly for dislike of Gruden, led the investigator to them.
There was no way Gruden could lead a team after this. You guys sound ridiculous. These emails were not found by someone scouring the internet. The emails were part of an investigation into the Washington football team and allegations of malfeasance and were correspondence between him and Bruce Allen the president of the team who is also brother of the former republican gov of Va George Allen. He just happened to get caught up in the dragnet. He should be fired. There is no way he could lead a team after theses remarks show how he truly feels about minority groups. This wasn't just locker room talk. He canceled himself. There were other heavy hitters on the email such as the ceo of PDQ chicken and the head of the outback bowl among others. He felt comfortable enough to talk about people in such a fashion in front of his friends and one could reasonably presume that they agree with his sentiments if they did not call him out for it. Cmon guys...you cant defend this.
Adreed. I have been a member of units during my 20 years in the military whose unity, morale, and cohesion were destroyed by that one person whom was neither respected nor as a result, trusted. Only the removal of that person allowed the healing to begin. So it is here. "Cancel culture", or any other leftist notion has nothing to do with this; as you noted, Gruden canceled himself. Raiders' owner Mark Davis knew full well that his team, for which there are very high expectations this season, would be destroyed from within were Gruden to be kept on as head coach. He was allowed to "resign" as sort of a face saving move for him, which is probably more than he deserved.
One more time: When you press or click "send" (or here, "Post"), it's gone FOREVER. It can never be undone. Gruden is a good coach, and hopefully he'll get another chance, although that won't and shouldn't happen soon; he needs time for a little introspectition and contrition.
Obviously, there’s a lesson that one must not put in emails even to friends their candid thoughts if said thoughts might be deemed offensive or use vulgar language and slurs.
I hope you mean this in the sense of "the elites lesson is..."
or have we reached the point of no return, we have thought control. Of course the problem is, like mint juleps and plantain partys, every thing we do and say is judged by constantly moving set of criteria.
Even today's useful idiots will be sacrificed one day because there will always be someone who believes more devout. Of course the only way to prove you are more devout is to find someone less devot, and kill them.
We are witnessing the inevitable results of the left's decades long assault presented boldly and with impunity.
Meanwhile, the West Virginia Senator robert byrd's statue still stands on the Senate floor. FYI- he was an “exalted cyclops” in the Ku Klux Klan.
Unfortunately it is not just the sports world where you need to be careful of what you say.
So.....revealing my age, long gone is the idea that created the children's rhyme "sticks and stones may break my bones BUT words will never hurt me." How weak and ineffective is a culture that cannot endure the insults and critical statements of others. Certainly we should speak kindly and generously to others if at all possible BUT when we don't how does one become so weak as to allow that person to define us by their words? Oh wait! You cannot control a society that does not allow you to define them. Good job on the engineers of this weak culture, they have succeeded well to this point in it's implementation. And wouldn't you like to know Roger Goodell's thoughts on John Gruden as he discovered what John really thought about him. I'm sure he would not want them published in their most raw edition. True hypocrites, true humanity!
I do not watch pro football much-College football is what I love, however I completely agree with your comments about Jon Gruden. How patently absurd that some pajama boy who has it in for Gruden has TIME to scour through who knows how many obscure emails to even FIND something to manufacture something to be OFFENDED over, to get the man fired! I do know that he was pursued, hounded and begged to come OUT of retirement to take that job! It is NONE of anyone's business what the man says to the recipient in a PRIVATE email! This truly is 1984, Brave New World, Big Brother, We the Living,etc, etc. The THOUGHT police, let alone the speech police are alive and well. I beleive you are right that there willl be a HUGE backlash!
I do agree with another comment that it was imprudent to use any company email, even if one thought it was a private communication. I have told countless people NEVER to use company email, phones, etc. to communicate anything but company businesss and information.
It has been quite a while since anyone in the sports world recognized that the spotlight is on, even when off the field. Of course, doesn't seem to matter to them that their on-field behavior is often egregious as well, but certainly "personal life" is off limits in their thinking. The very idea of being a positive "role model" (as in clean-cut, moral example) as an athlete, coach or commentator is taken as an onerous burden when, in fact, they truly are being viewed by many as a model for them to exemplify. The ubiquity of the Internet encroaches into private lives with unlimited memory. Whether appropriate or not, it is the reality.
OTOH, this presumes that Genesis 3 never occurred, that humans truly should be viewed as sterling models for how to live, which is clearly not true. There was a time when, even knowing Gen. 3's impact, many athletes like Jackie Robinson sought to be the best model possible to young people (and old). Those days are gone, anyone can publicly assassinate another with such information whether that information relates to their performance or not. As Erick opines, don't put anything in writing even in personal emails -- someone will eventually get a hold of it and weaponize it. Those on bully pulpits or in public eye are particularly vulnerable, but any of us can find ourselves on the wrong side of Human Resources for expressing Biblical stances that trigger the woke who appear to have time to sift through online garbage in search of ammo for personally attacking others.
Agreed Erick.
So very sad it has come to this for John Gruden. An excellent coach and sports caster. WHO HAS THIS JOB OF SITTING IN THEIR BASEMENT SEARCHING YEARS OF EMAILS. SICK!!
This is the most ridiculous Adult (loosely used) Action to punish or even make a issue under these circumstance. Dear God 🙏 We Need Serious Help here on Earth.
The Elites will punish anyone for any perceived slight regardless of when said slight was uttered or entered into written record - Brett Kavanaugh comes to mind.
Jon Gruden and Dave Chapelle walk into an LBGTQ bar together....
LOLOL
Another reason to never use work e-mail systems for personal correspondence.
...or any email expressing views that could potentially be weaponized by bad actors...
Not quite so, Vandalii; to do that would truly be a chilling restraint of our free speech rights, which is something we both know the left seeks whenever possible. This case is different; there's no way that what Jon Gruden wrote was other than what it was; insensitive, damaging to the morale and cohesion of the team, and sinful to boot.
Cancel culture wins again.
Hmmm. Mixed feelings. My simple takeaway: Cancel Culture sucks and should be cancelled; and Gruden is an idiot but probably should not have been cancelled.
I'll keep defending the Raiders here. Mark Davis had no choice but to show Gruden the door; his comments were very destructive to the cohesion and morale of the Raiders team, and couldn't simply be allowed to stand. If we must seek and identify a real bad actor here, it would be whoever got his hands on those emails and decided for whatever reason, probably some deep seated person animus towards Gruden, decided to make them public. Everything else was predictable and inevitable.
I don't disagree, but Gruden DID send the emails. Even in 2011 it was unwise to publish (email is technically publishing) that kind of offensive language. The question for me now is, who's next?
And no, I am not convinced that the NFL stumbled upon those emails while sorting through Washington's stuff. I'm sure someone, possibly trying to deflect the league investigator's attention, possibly for dislike of Gruden, led the investigator to them.
Same
Well said, Erick. Amen!