Christianity and Forgiveness and Love thy neighbor...
We ought to hate [sin]. Does loving your [neighbor] mean not punishing him [for a crime]? No, for loving myself does not mean this I ought not to subject myself to punishment.... If you have committed [a crime] the right Christian thing to do would be to give yourself up...
~C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
The PCA is out of alignment with actual Christian doctrine.
Wow that’s crazy Churches of any denomination should stick to preaching about the Lord Jesus Christ and God leaving the leagal things to those in that business
I'm not PCA, but am a Christian. Those of you who are PCA members ask them if they ever put together information on what to do if you're out for a run, stalked, attacked, and eventually murdered by an illegal immigrant. I'm sure Laken Riley could have used such information.
I'm PCA, as well. My church has strong ties to the Hispanic community, which comprises 26% of the city where the church is located; and we actively try to appeal to Spanish-speakers by offering a streaming translation app and an online service in Spanish. (Our pastor was a missionary in Colombia a decade ago and is fluent in Spanish.)
Several years ago, the elders had to turn away a candidate for the diaconate because they discovered that he was in the US illegally. They counseled him to apply for citizenship, and he left the church. At the same time, an associate pastor, who was here legally, was meeting separately with the Spanish-speaking congregants and demanding monetary support from them. When this was discovered and he was confronted, he left the church and took most of the Spanish-speakers (whom he was conning) with him. Then he bad-mouthed the church throughout the Hispanic community, saying that the church was racist.
Why do I tell you all this? To illustrate that there are big problems within the Hispanic community -- not just in terms of legality, but in terms of hard-heartedness and vulnerability to immoral leadership. There are plenty of cultural small-c christians who want Grace without repentance; and this expectation almost always hardens one's heart. They don't want to stop sinning, so they go where sin isn't called-out or addressed, and it just hardens their hearts more. It's sad to see the PCA MNA fomenting this.
I believe ministers and politicians need to face REALITY. Drop a note to the pastor about the suspect in the grisly murder of a Massachusetts sandwich shop owner who is a 25-year-old illegal alien from the Dominican Republic who was released into the U.S. after he was stopped near the border in Texas under then-President Joe Biden in September 2022. Also, have them speak to the Angel Moms and vets and homeless who sleep on the street displaced by illegals WITH HOTEL ACCOMMMODATIONS. Priorities! Americans first!
PCA member in TX agrees. Romans 13 pretty clear we live under law of God's granting, carefully weigh whether disobedience to human law is in support of God's Law (like Shadrach Meshach and Abednego, Peter, Paul, Stephen et al). For laws of USA, not a lot of low-hanging fruit (now that COVID lockdowns of churches is over).
I find it very troubling that the PCA has involved the entire membership of a religious organization in an effort to assist those that have broken US immigration laws. I urge PCA members to reject their leaders that posted this effort to assist illegals to break our laws.
Funny - as a RE in a PCA church we had a Session meeting last night where we discussed the issue of ICE (not the memo because we didn't see it). We have both Hispanic and Chinese congregations as well as English as Second Language ministry. Our policy is to obey the law with the only stipulation that we would ask ICE officials not to arrest anyone during a worship service and to do it outside the building. (No, we are not establishing a sanctuary.)
All that being said, I think the media and the Democrats (but I repeat myself) have made a mountain out of a molehill regarding this. I find hard to believe that ICE agents would bust into a church during a worship service to arrest anybody - unless they were an immediate threat.
We are in a very liberal county right outside of DC. There were implied threats during COVID. That's why we said we will comply with the law regarding ICE, but not in a worship service. We are not willing to have the government interfere with worshipping God even though we believe these actions are good and legitimate versus the COVID tyranny.
Is a tangible situation for any Church, Synagogue Temple or Mosque. Congregants are asking for wise guidance should ICE choose to enter/enforce during the worship of our Living God.
That said, this was not wise guidance from my PCA leaders.
This isn’t The Netherlands occupied by the Nazis, where Christians hid Jews, as well as Dutch men of draft age who would have been conscripted into the German army. This mission agency may be well meaning, but very unwise.
Wonder if these church leaders are pursuing their own self interest for larger congregations?
Christianity and Forgiveness and Love thy neighbor...
We ought to hate [sin]. Does loving your [neighbor] mean not punishing him [for a crime]? No, for loving myself does not mean this I ought not to subject myself to punishment.... If you have committed [a crime] the right Christian thing to do would be to give yourself up...
~C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
The PCA is out of alignment with actual Christian doctrine.
Wow that’s crazy Churches of any denomination should stick to preaching about the Lord Jesus Christ and God leaving the leagal things to those in that business
Interesting - I am PCA and I will be asking some pointed questions of our leadership for clarification in our particular congregation. Thanks!
I'm not PCA, but am a Christian. Those of you who are PCA members ask them if they ever put together information on what to do if you're out for a run, stalked, attacked, and eventually murdered by an illegal immigrant. I'm sure Laken Riley could have used such information.
I'm PCA, as well. My church has strong ties to the Hispanic community, which comprises 26% of the city where the church is located; and we actively try to appeal to Spanish-speakers by offering a streaming translation app and an online service in Spanish. (Our pastor was a missionary in Colombia a decade ago and is fluent in Spanish.)
Several years ago, the elders had to turn away a candidate for the diaconate because they discovered that he was in the US illegally. They counseled him to apply for citizenship, and he left the church. At the same time, an associate pastor, who was here legally, was meeting separately with the Spanish-speaking congregants and demanding monetary support from them. When this was discovered and he was confronted, he left the church and took most of the Spanish-speakers (whom he was conning) with him. Then he bad-mouthed the church throughout the Hispanic community, saying that the church was racist.
Why do I tell you all this? To illustrate that there are big problems within the Hispanic community -- not just in terms of legality, but in terms of hard-heartedness and vulnerability to immoral leadership. There are plenty of cultural small-c christians who want Grace without repentance; and this expectation almost always hardens one's heart. They don't want to stop sinning, so they go where sin isn't called-out or addressed, and it just hardens their hearts more. It's sad to see the PCA MNA fomenting this.
I am compassionate towards my fellow man however this position boarders on aiding and abetting a criminal act
I totally agree with you on this issue.
I believe ministers and politicians need to face REALITY. Drop a note to the pastor about the suspect in the grisly murder of a Massachusetts sandwich shop owner who is a 25-year-old illegal alien from the Dominican Republic who was released into the U.S. after he was stopped near the border in Texas under then-President Joe Biden in September 2022. Also, have them speak to the Angel Moms and vets and homeless who sleep on the street displaced by illegals WITH HOTEL ACCOMMMODATIONS. Priorities! Americans first!
it is, at best, misguided priorities and at worst, aiding and abetting criminals. Both are unacceptable for CHURCHES in particular.
PCA member in TX agrees. Romans 13 pretty clear we live under law of God's granting, carefully weigh whether disobedience to human law is in support of God's Law (like Shadrach Meshach and Abednego, Peter, Paul, Stephen et al). For laws of USA, not a lot of low-hanging fruit (now that COVID lockdowns of churches is over).
Yes, exactly!
I find it very troubling that the PCA has involved the entire membership of a religious organization in an effort to assist those that have broken US immigration laws. I urge PCA members to reject their leaders that posted this effort to assist illegals to break our laws.
Funny - as a RE in a PCA church we had a Session meeting last night where we discussed the issue of ICE (not the memo because we didn't see it). We have both Hispanic and Chinese congregations as well as English as Second Language ministry. Our policy is to obey the law with the only stipulation that we would ask ICE officials not to arrest anyone during a worship service and to do it outside the building. (No, we are not establishing a sanctuary.)
All that being said, I think the media and the Democrats (but I repeat myself) have made a mountain out of a molehill regarding this. I find hard to believe that ICE agents would bust into a church during a worship service to arrest anybody - unless they were an immediate threat.
Do recall that government agents interfered with church services during the Covid scamdemic.
We are in a very liberal county right outside of DC. There were implied threats during COVID. That's why we said we will comply with the law regarding ICE, but not in a worship service. We are not willing to have the government interfere with worshipping God even though we believe these actions are good and legitimate versus the COVID tyranny.
Why are they being involved at all.
Is a tangible situation for any Church, Synagogue Temple or Mosque. Congregants are asking for wise guidance should ICE choose to enter/enforce during the worship of our Living God.
That said, this was not wise guidance from my PCA leaders.
Thank you!
This isn’t The Netherlands occupied by the Nazis, where Christians hid Jews, as well as Dutch men of draft age who would have been conscripted into the German army. This mission agency may be well meaning, but very unwise.
Why doesn’t the church help them to find the line where becoming a legal citizen begins.
Hopefully, we are. There is the immediate action question - how shall we handle worship interruption?