Where has that Donald Trump been? Last night’s presidential debate was an actual, factual, normal presidential debate. The President remembered his key messaging and focus. Joe Biden managed to speak uninterrupted for two minutes without coming off as an insane guy. The moderator moderated. She even asked about the Hunter Biden story.
Went back and read this post. I have to admit that I’m mystified that a man who wrote this - “ Lastly, go read this from John Piper. It is your must-read of the day. To the extent you dispute it, you probably need a well check for your soul“ is going to vote (has voted?) for Donald Trump. Just mystified.
What would Piper write if the main ticket was Pence vs Harris? The choice is really Trump/Pence vs Harris. Biden won’t last a first term. With Harris we get a cocktail of supercharged arrogance, lawlessness and a murder enabler.
John Piper does not present a compelling argument that while Trump exerts a deadly influence on our nation by his very person, Joe Biden's deadly influence resides only in his policies. Biden may be a "nice person," but his scandalous public abandonment of fundamental Christian principles -- in order to be liked, in order to get votes, in order to hang on to power -- strikes me as the worst sort of deadly example that can shape a nation. Catholic politicians who promote an anti-Christian agenda have had a demoralizing and divisive effect on American Catholics and given encouragement and cover to those who also decided to sell out to this perishing culture. Joe Biden's example has not helped shape our citizens to be persons of principle, much less the "real, radical Christians" John Piper rightly exhorts us to be.
I highly respect John Piper as a teacher of the Word of God. His expository teaching of the New Testament, verse-by-verse, and sometimes word-by-word, is second to none. In the case of his article though, I believe his life application of Scriptures is questionable.
In doing research and reading of follow-ups by other Christian authors, I came across this one from Jeff Maples of Reformation Charlotte, that seemed to summarize my heart-felt reasoning for voting for Trump:
How I pray that all elected government positions were filled by those of us from the Christian community who would take a public stand for Godly principles. Shame on us that this is not the case. In the meantime, I must make a prayerful choice to vote for the person that I believe will make decisions that will allow God's message of Salvation for all to still be proclaimed in this country. If my decision-making is flawed all I can do is ask for God's forgiveness, while continuing to pray for repentance from and Salvation for both candidates.
Thank you Erik for highlighting this issue for discussion.
One good Trump performance does not erase his arrogance, lies, name-calling, division,etc. except to those who want to find a reason to support him. Too much water under the bridge. I personally did not vote in that race but supported R's in the other races. The focus team of undecided voters whom I saw supported Biden afterward, and no one supported Trump. There were still a very few undecided.
Hi Erik, I read John Piper's article before I write this. Maybe I read it wrong, but I believe I interpret this to say he is voting for neither Trump nor Biden. That was the tact that I took in 2016 as I could vote for neither Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump, for many of the same reasons I believe Piper is outlining in his article. I am really really torn this year as to what to do. I know one thing for sure, I cannot vote for Bidden. I know any sin brings one to the gates of hell. I do know that some sins plunge the soul into darker regions of that place. Finally, I also do not want to condone or seem to support the me-me-me, or I, I , I of the president. I do appreciate that he has done much that advances what I believe are correct moral decisions even if he is in fact immoral and unrepentant. I am not cheering wildly at his rallies. I fear for him as he will most certainly be subject to a scrutiny and sticker judgement because of his influence and sway on so many people. But, this year I am left with the feeling that not to vote for Trump is a vote for Biden. I am curious as to your thoughts, if you care to share. Thanks Charles de Andrade
Erick, what is heart-stopping and stunning about Dr. PIper's article is indeed that last paragraph where--unbelievably--he equates the murder of precious unborn human persons with the sin of arrogance. Now, of course no one--certainly not I--disputes the fact that one-half of one sin is enough to require the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ. Both sins separate us forever from the presence of God. But only one of the two ends the life of another person created in His image. To equate them is mind-boggling.
The right issues for Trump to focus on in the eye of the beholder. Erick's eyes seem to want to focus on a narrow set of issues, whereas Trump prefers fighting a multi-front war for traditional Republican policies and against Democratic policies:
1. Appointing judges who will uphold the Constitution, supporting Second Amendment rights, pro-life issues, a strong military and a prospering private sector economy for all citizens.
2. Opposing Green New Deal policies that will arguably destroy the US economy, opposing open borders and amnesty for illegal aliens, opposing Antifa and BLM riots, etc.
In addition, Trump battles against what nearly everybody now admits is a very biased media that is intent on blocking all opposing opinions. While the issues with the Biden family selling government influence for foreign riches may not interest Erick, they are part of a multi-year Trumpian crusade to treat Democratic misdeeds the same way Republican misdeeds are treated (in both the media and the legal system).
The Democrats want to make this election about two primary issues: 1. How evil they claim Trump and his policies are. 2. How Trump is solely responsible for the dreaded consequences of the Coronavirus. The first issue assumes the Democratic alternative is the opposite of evil, which is arguably false. The second issue assumes that Corona cases and deaths would be non-existent if not for Trump. But I have spent most of this year in the EU and I know that is false. Even people who wear masks, practice social distancing, and hate Trump can catch Corona, with the German Health Minister, the Nevada Health Minister, and the Virginia Governor all being victims of a dangerous disease that has taken many lives.
I agree with Piper's emphasizing the defiling influence of sins of character in our leaders. I disagree with his equivocation of these with the rejection of God and His order of creation contained in the legalization of abortion and same sex unions. The left would impose its own take on reality in the spirit of antichrist -- rejection of the tolerance of anti-Biblical views and active promotion and requirement of them by the state, with no dissent permitted, cementing in law and policy their warped moral universe. I loathe Trump's arrogance and unrepentance, but installing the left's proud, controlling, outright rejection of God, and their intent to transform our country into one where murder and lawlessnes are celebrated as situationally good and the state supplies the correct moral stances, would unleash all manner of evil in our society. I pray for God's mercy on our nation and support another term for the imperfect, unlikely "thornbush king" (á là Judges 9) the people choose last time.
My comment is related to the point of the Piper article. I agree with his premise that immorality, boastfulness, vulgarity, "and the like", are deadly sins for the soul, if left unforgiven. Donald Trump is obviously guilty of these things, but we don't know whether or not he is forgiven because we are not God. Given the recent revelations about his past practices, it is obvious that Joe Biden is no saint, either. We've seen the tapes of him "boasting" about how he pressured political leaders to implement policies that benefited him and his family, and he has certainly lied about his stance and actions on many different issues. My point is that they are both deeply flawed sinners... but so are we all. Frankly, I feel more comfortable trusting the man who wears is sins on his sleeves with the future of my children than I am voting for a man who lies about his morality and hides his sins from us, just so he can "appear" more moral. My problem with the logic that Rev. Piper is advocating is that if we follow it, the only people we can vote for are the ones who "act" pious, regardless of the "deadly" policies they advocate. "Judge not that ye be not judged" (Matthew 7:1). Whether or not Donald Trump or Joe Biden have repented and are forgiven is not my concern. The policies they advocate and implement are my concern, and those policies are the basis of my decision on which one to vote for.
The one way I see the Hunter Biden story being valuable is that it undercuts the Biden campaign's central message that if we are to restore the moral dignity of the Presidency, we must elect this man of sterling morals and convictions, Joe Biden. If Biden is seems as corrupt, it undercuts the whole "right side of history" nonsense and that could lead to a collapse of support for Biden.
And regarding the Piper article, wow. Yes, convicting and powerful. We DO have much work to do as a nation to re-establish our moral compass.
If only the President could have been like this in the first debate. But wish in one hand......... I disagree that this is a distraction with Hunter Biden. Do you really want a president that can so easily take money from a foreign governments for favors that put money in the pockets of you and your family?
The Hunter Biden story is a distraction and those who will give it credibility already believed in the validity of the Ukrainian entanglement. That being said, with Pelosi’s 25th Amendment stunt & the probability of this story being true, if Biden is elected, essentially Harris will be President through resignation or conviction and that tragedy should be the spin propagated.
Went back and read this post. I have to admit that I’m mystified that a man who wrote this - “ Lastly, go read this from John Piper. It is your must-read of the day. To the extent you dispute it, you probably need a well check for your soul“ is going to vote (has voted?) for Donald Trump. Just mystified.
What would Piper write if the main ticket was Pence vs Harris? The choice is really Trump/Pence vs Harris. Biden won’t last a first term. With Harris we get a cocktail of supercharged arrogance, lawlessness and a murder enabler.
John Piper does not present a compelling argument that while Trump exerts a deadly influence on our nation by his very person, Joe Biden's deadly influence resides only in his policies. Biden may be a "nice person," but his scandalous public abandonment of fundamental Christian principles -- in order to be liked, in order to get votes, in order to hang on to power -- strikes me as the worst sort of deadly example that can shape a nation. Catholic politicians who promote an anti-Christian agenda have had a demoralizing and divisive effect on American Catholics and given encouragement and cover to those who also decided to sell out to this perishing culture. Joe Biden's example has not helped shape our citizens to be persons of principle, much less the "real, radical Christians" John Piper rightly exhorts us to be.
I highly respect John Piper as a teacher of the Word of God. His expository teaching of the New Testament, verse-by-verse, and sometimes word-by-word, is second to none. In the case of his article though, I believe his life application of Scriptures is questionable.
In doing research and reading of follow-ups by other Christian authors, I came across this one from Jeff Maples of Reformation Charlotte, that seemed to summarize my heart-felt reasoning for voting for Trump:
https://reformationcharlotte.org/2020/10/22/john-piper-says-trumps-personal-immorality-more-deadly-than-planned-parenthood/
How I pray that all elected government positions were filled by those of us from the Christian community who would take a public stand for Godly principles. Shame on us that this is not the case. In the meantime, I must make a prayerful choice to vote for the person that I believe will make decisions that will allow God's message of Salvation for all to still be proclaimed in this country. If my decision-making is flawed all I can do is ask for God's forgiveness, while continuing to pray for repentance from and Salvation for both candidates.
Thank you Erik for highlighting this issue for discussion.
One good Trump performance does not erase his arrogance, lies, name-calling, division,etc. except to those who want to find a reason to support him. Too much water under the bridge. I personally did not vote in that race but supported R's in the other races. The focus team of undecided voters whom I saw supported Biden afterward, and no one supported Trump. There were still a very few undecided.
Hi Erik, I read John Piper's article before I write this. Maybe I read it wrong, but I believe I interpret this to say he is voting for neither Trump nor Biden. That was the tact that I took in 2016 as I could vote for neither Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump, for many of the same reasons I believe Piper is outlining in his article. I am really really torn this year as to what to do. I know one thing for sure, I cannot vote for Bidden. I know any sin brings one to the gates of hell. I do know that some sins plunge the soul into darker regions of that place. Finally, I also do not want to condone or seem to support the me-me-me, or I, I , I of the president. I do appreciate that he has done much that advances what I believe are correct moral decisions even if he is in fact immoral and unrepentant. I am not cheering wildly at his rallies. I fear for him as he will most certainly be subject to a scrutiny and sticker judgement because of his influence and sway on so many people. But, this year I am left with the feeling that not to vote for Trump is a vote for Biden. I am curious as to your thoughts, if you care to share. Thanks Charles de Andrade
Erick, what is heart-stopping and stunning about Dr. PIper's article is indeed that last paragraph where--unbelievably--he equates the murder of precious unborn human persons with the sin of arrogance. Now, of course no one--certainly not I--disputes the fact that one-half of one sin is enough to require the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ. Both sins separate us forever from the presence of God. But only one of the two ends the life of another person created in His image. To equate them is mind-boggling.
The right issues for Trump to focus on in the eye of the beholder. Erick's eyes seem to want to focus on a narrow set of issues, whereas Trump prefers fighting a multi-front war for traditional Republican policies and against Democratic policies:
1. Appointing judges who will uphold the Constitution, supporting Second Amendment rights, pro-life issues, a strong military and a prospering private sector economy for all citizens.
2. Opposing Green New Deal policies that will arguably destroy the US economy, opposing open borders and amnesty for illegal aliens, opposing Antifa and BLM riots, etc.
In addition, Trump battles against what nearly everybody now admits is a very biased media that is intent on blocking all opposing opinions. While the issues with the Biden family selling government influence for foreign riches may not interest Erick, they are part of a multi-year Trumpian crusade to treat Democratic misdeeds the same way Republican misdeeds are treated (in both the media and the legal system).
The Democrats want to make this election about two primary issues: 1. How evil they claim Trump and his policies are. 2. How Trump is solely responsible for the dreaded consequences of the Coronavirus. The first issue assumes the Democratic alternative is the opposite of evil, which is arguably false. The second issue assumes that Corona cases and deaths would be non-existent if not for Trump. But I have spent most of this year in the EU and I know that is false. Even people who wear masks, practice social distancing, and hate Trump can catch Corona, with the German Health Minister, the Nevada Health Minister, and the Virginia Governor all being victims of a dangerous disease that has taken many lives.
I agree with Piper's emphasizing the defiling influence of sins of character in our leaders. I disagree with his equivocation of these with the rejection of God and His order of creation contained in the legalization of abortion and same sex unions. The left would impose its own take on reality in the spirit of antichrist -- rejection of the tolerance of anti-Biblical views and active promotion and requirement of them by the state, with no dissent permitted, cementing in law and policy their warped moral universe. I loathe Trump's arrogance and unrepentance, but installing the left's proud, controlling, outright rejection of God, and their intent to transform our country into one where murder and lawlessnes are celebrated as situationally good and the state supplies the correct moral stances, would unleash all manner of evil in our society. I pray for God's mercy on our nation and support another term for the imperfect, unlikely "thornbush king" (á là Judges 9) the people choose last time.
My comment is related to the point of the Piper article. I agree with his premise that immorality, boastfulness, vulgarity, "and the like", are deadly sins for the soul, if left unforgiven. Donald Trump is obviously guilty of these things, but we don't know whether or not he is forgiven because we are not God. Given the recent revelations about his past practices, it is obvious that Joe Biden is no saint, either. We've seen the tapes of him "boasting" about how he pressured political leaders to implement policies that benefited him and his family, and he has certainly lied about his stance and actions on many different issues. My point is that they are both deeply flawed sinners... but so are we all. Frankly, I feel more comfortable trusting the man who wears is sins on his sleeves with the future of my children than I am voting for a man who lies about his morality and hides his sins from us, just so he can "appear" more moral. My problem with the logic that Rev. Piper is advocating is that if we follow it, the only people we can vote for are the ones who "act" pious, regardless of the "deadly" policies they advocate. "Judge not that ye be not judged" (Matthew 7:1). Whether or not Donald Trump or Joe Biden have repented and are forgiven is not my concern. The policies they advocate and implement are my concern, and those policies are the basis of my decision on which one to vote for.
Very impressed with the moderator. She was even-handed.
The one way I see the Hunter Biden story being valuable is that it undercuts the Biden campaign's central message that if we are to restore the moral dignity of the Presidency, we must elect this man of sterling morals and convictions, Joe Biden. If Biden is seems as corrupt, it undercuts the whole "right side of history" nonsense and that could lead to a collapse of support for Biden.
And regarding the Piper article, wow. Yes, convicting and powerful. We DO have much work to do as a nation to re-establish our moral compass.
If only the President could have been like this in the first debate. But wish in one hand......... I disagree that this is a distraction with Hunter Biden. Do you really want a president that can so easily take money from a foreign governments for favors that put money in the pockets of you and your family?
The Hunter Biden story is a distraction and those who will give it credibility already believed in the validity of the Ukrainian entanglement. That being said, with Pelosi’s 25th Amendment stunt & the probability of this story being true, if Biden is elected, essentially Harris will be President through resignation or conviction and that tragedy should be the spin propagated.