If you're able to put away any pre-conceived ill notions about Andy Stanley, I highly recommend his short book Not In It To Win It. It's a great read, especially during this election season.
I recently heard a sermon (regretfully cannot remember the preacher’s name) who warns that in our country people are worshipping their ideology over worshipping God. Stunned, as I listened closely, it made sense of the chaos we sense around our politics and beliefs these days. We are no longer stressing the holiness of God. We are mixing too deeply policy and politicians with Christian faith. God is not to be used for our purposes. Christianity is not a weapon to promote our causes or political favorites. Read up on the prophets. Isaiah chapter 3 can make you shudder! Keep God holy.
I remember way back in the late 1970s and 1980s when good people like Francis Schaeffer and Chuck Colson told Christians that their faith needed to be more than just a "Sunday" faith - they needed to take it to the marketplace, school, and community - very good advice.
However, sometime in the ensuing years, the message got twisted into not just convincing the other side but destroying them. That anyone who opposed you was incurably evil. They weren't sinners to be loved and converted. I really feel this is at least part of the reason we evangelicals are in the fix we're currently in.
Parts of this made me smile, others caused a chuckle, and some places a tear formed. I’ve been a pastor for almost 30 years. I’m currently in a very small struggling church. I also just finished my doctorate dealing with many of the issues you listed. God sent me to this church & I’m currently there full-time. Yet I will be seeking a part-time position teaching at a college, university, or seminary to take financial pressure off the church. No plans on going to another one either. Yet it means so much that you enunciated these thoughts in a way that only you can. You once again reminded me much ministry occurs outside the church by those who are not pastors but also obediently love our Lord. I deeply appreciate you so much Erick! Grace always!
It's a great observation that I wholeheartedly endorse, but there is one factual error.
EWE wrote: "If your church has a full-time pastor who does not work another job, you are in the minority."
That's not true as written. It is true only if looking at the number of churches, because there are a zillion small churches where the pastor is not paid full time. However, the number of PEOPLE attending a church that has a full-time pastor dwarfs the number attending one that does not.
By the way, if you go to that link, you will find a lot of disturbing numbers on just who are "pastors." But the data on attendees of churches with full-time pastors is clear.
Ditto! Our speaker yesterday started the sermon with the conflicts going on around the world, from Myanmar to Ukraine to Sudan to Israel. He managed to get across the point of the turmoil and pain without getting political.
I have never even understood what anyone means by "Christian Nationalism" and I sure as heck don't know what a "theobro" is. Seems to me that most people I see using the first term are referring to ordinary Christians who don't appear to me to have any extreme ideas at all. So I guess I need this explained. Also seems to me that if ones minister adheres to the Bible in his preaching, transferring that lesson to life and politics is pretty simple. Some things are right and others aren't. The ones generally called "woke" are generally not right. The word doesn't have to be invoked. We should know what it means. Stand against the wrong.
Ultra simply, Christian Nationalism seeks to impose a biblical morality & ethic on the whole of American society. This includes laws demanding allegiance being given to biblically defined commands/rules. It is untenable & unbiblical since it’s nothing more than legalism & idolatry. While I would like to express grace in my evaluation of those pushing this, they are either horribly biblically immature or not part of the Body of Christ since they are treating obedience to Scriptural commands as a means of salvation. It is not.
It's also known as "theonomy". Look up Pastor Doug Wilson in Moscow, Idaho. Learn about the "American Redoubt". Read "Survival and Resistance in Evangelical America" by Crawford Gribben. These folks appear to wish to recreate Calvin's Geneva, but with armed patrols on the fortress walls.
Very carefully!😎 They exist everywhere much like QANON and other groups. They are rarely as extreme or annoying as other conspirators, yet their ideas are ultimately destructive to both the unity & reputation of Christ. You can Google Christian Nationalism and its primary leaders. Their statements will initially sound reasonable. It’s the extrapolation of their ideas that create problems. Grace!
I will definitely have to find them and see for myself. I have heard too many allegations that are decidedly not true about anyone who isn't on the left to believe that which I do not see. I am assuming that you are not a raging leftist making wild claims, so will resort to google to look.
Well, I’m right handed, right leaning and a Reformed Baptist!😎 I’m very conservative in my theology & politics! There are some truly evil people. Yet there are also just some who are confused and trying to find something true. You seem very balanced. I pray you’ll find a more fully orbed answer.
Well, all I found confirmed your definition of the term. Apparently, google is not my friend because I could not find references for any leaders of such an ideology, nor any actual examples. But I shall continue to look. I do see two descriptions of the founding of our country used somewhat interchangeably, though logically they are not precisely the same. Some say we were formed as a "Christian country", which is not precisely correct, and some use formed on "Christian values", which is more correct. But thank you for pointing me in a direction to look for this.
If I could give you a million likes for this, I would. More Jesus, less us.
The Word of God is absolute truth. In ITS pages are where we find vindication over the world through Christ, conviction of our own sin, and encouragement to continue living for Jesus, to point the world to HIM and Him alone.
Oh I’m so glad you spoke of this, this morning. I converted to Catholicism in 2012. Our priests don’t have “second jobs”. I get it, my paternal grandfather was a southern Baptist minister and he worked in the cotton mill. He was “woke” before there was such a thing. Growing up
In the Deep South, he was a social justice advocate from way back and once when his board told him he could not have a black preacher deliver a message in the pulpit, he said, “well, you won’t have a pastor come Sunday morning.” That black man preached in my grandfather’s white church. This is how I grew up. Read Richard Rohr and you will never be the same. This current state is just temporary and my friends, you better have an eternal view and have those lamp stands lit.
If you're able to put away any pre-conceived ill notions about Andy Stanley, I highly recommend his short book Not In It To Win It. It's a great read, especially during this election season.
I recently heard a sermon (regretfully cannot remember the preacher’s name) who warns that in our country people are worshipping their ideology over worshipping God. Stunned, as I listened closely, it made sense of the chaos we sense around our politics and beliefs these days. We are no longer stressing the holiness of God. We are mixing too deeply policy and politicians with Christian faith. God is not to be used for our purposes. Christianity is not a weapon to promote our causes or political favorites. Read up on the prophets. Isaiah chapter 3 can make you shudder! Keep God holy.
I remember way back in the late 1970s and 1980s when good people like Francis Schaeffer and Chuck Colson told Christians that their faith needed to be more than just a "Sunday" faith - they needed to take it to the marketplace, school, and community - very good advice.
However, sometime in the ensuing years, the message got twisted into not just convincing the other side but destroying them. That anyone who opposed you was incurably evil. They weren't sinners to be loved and converted. I really feel this is at least part of the reason we evangelicals are in the fix we're currently in.
Excellent column.
Yes and amen.
Parts of this made me smile, others caused a chuckle, and some places a tear formed. I’ve been a pastor for almost 30 years. I’m currently in a very small struggling church. I also just finished my doctorate dealing with many of the issues you listed. God sent me to this church & I’m currently there full-time. Yet I will be seeking a part-time position teaching at a college, university, or seminary to take financial pressure off the church. No plans on going to another one either. Yet it means so much that you enunciated these thoughts in a way that only you can. You once again reminded me much ministry occurs outside the church by those who are not pastors but also obediently love our Lord. I deeply appreciate you so much Erick! Grace always!
There's a reason my Substack is called "Defaulting to Grace."
It's a great observation that I wholeheartedly endorse, but there is one factual error.
EWE wrote: "If your church has a full-time pastor who does not work another job, you are in the minority."
That's not true as written. It is true only if looking at the number of churches, because there are a zillion small churches where the pastor is not paid full time. However, the number of PEOPLE attending a church that has a full-time pastor dwarfs the number attending one that does not.
Source: https://www.zippia.com/pastor-jobs/demographics/
By the way, if you go to that link, you will find a lot of disturbing numbers on just who are "pastors." But the data on attendees of churches with full-time pastors is clear.
Thanks for that.
Glad to go to church where politics from the pulpit is not done.
Ditto! Our speaker yesterday started the sermon with the conflicts going on around the world, from Myanmar to Ukraine to Sudan to Israel. He managed to get across the point of the turmoil and pain without getting political.
Thank you very much for this. Sry astute analysis of the situation. Very helpful and actually encouraging to me.
I have never even understood what anyone means by "Christian Nationalism" and I sure as heck don't know what a "theobro" is. Seems to me that most people I see using the first term are referring to ordinary Christians who don't appear to me to have any extreme ideas at all. So I guess I need this explained. Also seems to me that if ones minister adheres to the Bible in his preaching, transferring that lesson to life and politics is pretty simple. Some things are right and others aren't. The ones generally called "woke" are generally not right. The word doesn't have to be invoked. We should know what it means. Stand against the wrong.
Woke Definition: Willingly Overlooking Known Evil
Ultra simply, Christian Nationalism seeks to impose a biblical morality & ethic on the whole of American society. This includes laws demanding allegiance being given to biblically defined commands/rules. It is untenable & unbiblical since it’s nothing more than legalism & idolatry. While I would like to express grace in my evaluation of those pushing this, they are either horribly biblically immature or not part of the Body of Christ since they are treating obedience to Scriptural commands as a means of salvation. It is not.
It's also known as "theonomy". Look up Pastor Doug Wilson in Moscow, Idaho. Learn about the "American Redoubt". Read "Survival and Resistance in Evangelical America" by Crawford Gribben. These folks appear to wish to recreate Calvin's Geneva, but with armed patrols on the fortress walls.
Thanks for the explanation. I have never seen or heard of anyone trying to do that. Where do you find people who are?
Very carefully!😎 They exist everywhere much like QANON and other groups. They are rarely as extreme or annoying as other conspirators, yet their ideas are ultimately destructive to both the unity & reputation of Christ. You can Google Christian Nationalism and its primary leaders. Their statements will initially sound reasonable. It’s the extrapolation of their ideas that create problems. Grace!
I will definitely have to find them and see for myself. I have heard too many allegations that are decidedly not true about anyone who isn't on the left to believe that which I do not see. I am assuming that you are not a raging leftist making wild claims, so will resort to google to look.
Well, I’m right handed, right leaning and a Reformed Baptist!😎 I’m very conservative in my theology & politics! There are some truly evil people. Yet there are also just some who are confused and trying to find something true. You seem very balanced. I pray you’ll find a more fully orbed answer.
Well, all I found confirmed your definition of the term. Apparently, google is not my friend because I could not find references for any leaders of such an ideology, nor any actual examples. But I shall continue to look. I do see two descriptions of the founding of our country used somewhat interchangeably, though logically they are not precisely the same. Some say we were formed as a "Christian country", which is not precisely correct, and some use formed on "Christian values", which is more correct. But thank you for pointing me in a direction to look for this.
"Thank you for affirming my victimhood. I affirm your victimhood also."
"May God avenge your oppressors."
Both: "Amen" - that's modern American religion.
Do you consider Alberta to be one of the aggrieved airing grievances? Just curious.
His book arrived Friday. Unfortunately, I am out of town, but I look forward to reading it at my earliest convenience.
If I could give you a million likes for this, I would. More Jesus, less us.
The Word of God is absolute truth. In ITS pages are where we find vindication over the world through Christ, conviction of our own sin, and encouragement to continue living for Jesus, to point the world to HIM and Him alone.
Oh I’m so glad you spoke of this, this morning. I converted to Catholicism in 2012. Our priests don’t have “second jobs”. I get it, my paternal grandfather was a southern Baptist minister and he worked in the cotton mill. He was “woke” before there was such a thing. Growing up
In the Deep South, he was a social justice advocate from way back and once when his board told him he could not have a black preacher deliver a message in the pulpit, he said, “well, you won’t have a pastor come Sunday morning.” That black man preached in my grandfather’s white church. This is how I grew up. Read Richard Rohr and you will never be the same. This current state is just temporary and my friends, you better have an eternal view and have those lamp stands lit.
As a pastor, thank you for this article. Well spoken.