There are many problems with the Trump trial, but let me focus on the basics. Trump is, essentially, charged with documentation fraud — claiming payment for a past debt was a legal fee. However, the statute of limitations is well past the time to charge Trump with that.
As much as I hate to admit it, given my firm belief that Trump deserves criminal prosecution, I think he stands a good chance of being wrongfully convicted in this case.
In order to elevate falsification of business records to a felony, the prosecution must basically prove it was done for the purpose of unlawfully influencing the outcome of the 2016 election. Though I disagree with Erick about this case constituting prosecution of a campaign finance violation (said violation being not the charged offense, but only an element thereof), the alternative explanation that Erick points to - namely, keeping his mistresses' allegations from his wife - is ample basis for reasonable doubt on the question of Trump's motive.
Ironically, in order to pursue this defense, Trump would have to take the stand. Should he do so, however, he would be subject to cross examination, focusing in particular on his credibility. Given Trump's longstanding and ongoing estrangement from the truth, he would be utterly and completely destroyed. So he can't take the stand and thereby offer the defense that in anyone else's case, would likely have dissuaded the prosecution from even pursuing these charges in the first place. I mean, talk about being hoisted with one's own petard . . . .
(Now here, let me pause and remind you that over just the last few days, Trump has repeatedly said that he will indeed testify. Assuming that he has been advised by even minimally competent counsel, he knows better. So when he does not in fact testify, you will have yet another instance of Trump shamelessly lying to you that you must somehow manage to ignore.)
This is one of the reasons I have such a problem with the two choices we have with this year’s presidential election: both candidates are absolutely shameless liars. I’m disappointed that the two parties can’t/won’t nominate more credible candidates.
They are targeting Donald Trump but he gave the the bullseye to pin on him. Deciding who is lower here is hard. My sympathies are to Melania who has to live through a trial in which her husband is accused of buying the silence of a pornstar who he had a go inbetween the sheets with.
Democrats today are politically far less moral than Trump. They demonstrate zero principles other than anything they think they can get away with to win. Bill Clinton started the trend toward the moral gutter.
When Trump became President the democrats swore they would bankrupt him and put him in jail, they are trying everything they can and all just before the election
Your legal analysis of the Trump trial seems accurate! If there is No Case how can Bragg and the Judge proceed with one? I've always wondered where the impetus comes from for any of these people to carry out misrepresentations that fly in the face of common sense or in this case legality.
I think they are getting paid or otherwise compensated by some higher authority. I don't think it was Bragg's idea to accuse Trump, especially if he's a competent attorney. It's a political hit job. Could it be Obama? Or the DNC? Or simply the Biden administration?
Or could it be that Trump actually broke New York law?
One of the criticisms I have heard against this prosecutor is that in other cases, he is reducing felony charges to misdemeanors while doing the exact opposite in Trump's case. In my view, however, that does not mean Trump should get a pass. Rather, if convictions can be obtained, those other felonies should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
In any case where the accused gets convicted, the prosecutor would not have been doing his job had he foregone prosecution.
Not if you read the facts of the case in this case. The law & proper judicial behavior has been twisted worse than inside out. Both the Judge & DA should be sanctioned by their respected boards.
The jury will most certainly "read the facts of the case" and unless each and every element of the charge is proved beyond a reasonable doubt, Trump should walk. If they convict him, on the other hand, I suspect that you will then want the jury sanctioned, but I doubt that this is possible.
In a case that should not have been brought, especially before the election. Yes, there should have been a change of venue tried though at least they are doing one thing right using a better jury questionaire. However, there is probably no where he could get an honest impartial jury and they know that and still they brought it after Feds didn't, after statute of limitations, etc., and with actual dangerous criminals not being prosecuted and a backlog of cases. That to me constitutes premeditated election interference as it never would have been brought otherwise.
Regarding your assertion that this is all about election interference, you are of course aware that Trump's former fixer, Michael Cohen, faced prosecution for the same transactions for which Trump is now being held to account . . . and he's not running for anything.
pretty simple. Given the current events in the Middle East and how badly Joe Biden is.
The two words I have for this whole ordeal is WHO CARES!
People should still vote for trump and should still get Joe Biden out of office.
I said this is why we needed someone else as the nominee, even if that was hailey. But we got who we got and we need to support them.
Trump is womanizing, brash, boorish, business man with a routine of letting his mouth be his guide. None of that, will raise my taxes, get my daughter beaten or raped in the locker room by a mentally ill dude, cause inflation to rise, or start WW3. A Joe Biden 2nd term will do all of that and more. So no, I don't care that Trump is a womanizing brash loudmouthed SOB. He gets the job done, that's all I care about right now.
Trump has the money for his day in court. Do you? “Justice” can be used to intimidate anyone.
I’ve had the same cell phone number for 25 years. I get amber alerts and political texts from palm beach Florida . I live in New Jersey and have never been there or near there. How do I defend myself when an alphabet agency comes for me for something that happened there?
There once was this fella named Al Capone. Unable to get him off the streets for all the crimes he was committing, someone came up with the novel idea of prosecuting him for tax evasion and it worked. That didn't mean that suddenly, slews of ordinary Americans started getting prosecuted for tax evasion.
I would not dismiss out of hand the concern that Trump's prosecution sets a precedent that could be repeated against other politicians. Unless you're going to run for President or some other high office, however, the notion that they're coming for you next is a little absurd.
It does, the law works on precedents and the behavior of various DA's & Judges has been very much against proper conduct and procedures. The perception of bias is the standard check and, in these cases, actual known bias is being ignored. That is not a good look for our impartial system.
You might take that up with Justice Clarence Thomas, who refuses to recuse himself from cases involving efforts to overturn the 2020 elections, in which efforts his wife participated.
Bingo Erick! Facts are facts but there is one fact we do not know. Exactly what he has truly done in his personal life and what has been manufactured by a press that hates him and his policies and a Democrat party that hates the same. And if Trump’s personal life is imperfect, who walks among us that hadn’t sinned. All I know is we were much better off economically and geopolitically under Trump. Democracy didn’t end. Gays and trans individuals weren’t persecuted. Women were still able to have abortions. They still are even with the end of RvW. The press lied about Russia Collusion. They lied about the phony Ukraine corruption impeachment. They lied about Covid and censored scientists that knew otherwise, they lied about the Taliban bounty story. They lied about the Hunter Biden laptop. The list goes on and on. The true chaos during the Trump administration was caused by the press and frankly I think the fact he called them on their BS and punched back was cheered on by a majority of the country and a vast majority on the right.
Erick, I agree with 99% of what you say, but I disagree that Trump’s behavior brought thon upon himself. This is a political action that Bragg and Willis would have done to any Republican nominee. His behavior could certainly be better, but which examples of his bad behavior are true, and which have been generated by the media?
I support Trump’s policies- I have always added “in spite of his behavior “. But I have no way to know which of his misdeeds are fact and which are fiction. We are living in DC Comic’s Bizarro World.
The main problem that I have with the notion that any Republican nominee would be subjected to the same treatment is this: until Trump, none of them have been. Reagan wasn't prosecuted after Iran-Contra. Bush wasn't prosecuted after "enhanced interrogation," which was quite arguably a violation of international law. You see, Trump is a unique case.
Until Trump, no President had failed to transfer power peacefully in the entire 230+ years of this constitutional republic. Until Trump, no former President took classified documents with him and then not only refused to give them back, but lied about having done so. Until Trump, no politician undertook an unremitting effort to undermine public confidence in the electoral process that forms the bedrock of our democracy.
As for your uncertainty about the facts, that is what we have trials for. Indeed in the context of a criminal trial, each and every fact constituting an element of the crime must be proven to the UNANIMOUS satisfaction of twelve ordinary citizens, AND beyond a reasonable doubt. That is a high standard, which this prosecution may or may not be able to surmount. However, don't be surprised if until Trump, no other presidential nominee of a major party was a convicted felon.
Yeah, this trial really irks me that it got to this point both because it's utter bull sh_t, and because it gives the Trump leg humpers ammunition to mistakenly believe that all prosecutions of Trump or attempts to hold him accountable for his actions are "weaponization of government" or "lawfare" or some other made up dumbassery words to make Trump the victim. The prosecutions of Trump in DC, FL, and GA are all very legitimate, but many people don't have the capacity for nuance. So people on the right think Trump is the most prosecuted president / politician of all time because of TDS or whatever other nonsense just because some people do have some levels of TDS.
Just like the left's argument that the different levels of incarceration of some demographics is because of racism/sexism (some police / judges, etc. obviously have some levels of racism). But in each case Trump prosecutions, and different levels of incarceration the key driving force is the differing rate of criminality (i.e. Trump: before, during, and after his presidency has committed more crimes than all other presidents combined)
I think you may be confused about what TDS is. It's not a venereal disease. It's not like I cheated on my wife by having unprotected "relations" with pornstars like President P_ssy Grabber and caught it that way. So no physical affects.
It's more of a mindset that allows me to see through the near uniform conservative media mandated leg humping of Trump to see him for the repeated law breaker that he is.
How many of you have actually read any of the detailed indictments against Trump directly from the source? Listened to the quotes from his former cabinet / staff about his conduct (Bill Bar, General Kelley, Bolton, etc.)?, listened to the full audio of his recorded call with Raffensperger?, looked at the related court pleadings of Guiliani, Taveras, and other coconspirators?, listened to those in the room with him during J6?, etc. vs. just getting information spoon-fed to you from conservative media hosts whose livelihood depends on being deferential to Trump.
It's weird how so many of us can see the manipulation of information by media on the other side, but are blind to it on our side.
I am sure many of us read the information rather than just listening to it. However, as we can see from your rants, reading is not the same as understanding what you have read, because you have, assuming you formed your opinion from the reading, grossly misinterpreted much of what you have read. It would behoove you to not just read, but also to temper your TDS and listen to people who have legitimate law backgrounds to decipher what you think you have read.
Well I'm displaying objectivity by noting that this NY case is BS while the others are not. You seem to be saying that there is no merit in any prosecution of Trump for anything (that doesn't appear to be that objective)
Also please tell what networks / platforms you've listened to these supposed experts who all uniformly agree with your assessment that Trump has never committed any of the the crimes for which he's accused and ask yourself whether these networks would continue to be as profitable if they deeply offended Trump supporters by saying anything courter to or having other experts who do not agree with Trump's arguments.
It's rich that you are about to enthusiastically vote for someone on his third marriage, whose cheated on all of his wives (the most recent one we are aware of with a porn star), is on tape talking about trying to cheat with a married woman and grabbing others by the p_ssy, has made inappropriate remarks repeatedly about his daughter, was close friends with Jeffrey Epstein, etc. etc. but you are disgusted by someone who points any of this out? I am going to coin a new acronym for people like you. CTA (Cult of Trump Apologists)
Also - None of the above is why I am not voting for Trump. I could look the other way regarding all of it. Its when he illegally tried to end democracy because he was butthurt about losing the last election that did if for me. That is unforgivable.
I have absolutely no enthusiasm for this election. I voted for DeSantis in our primary even though he suspended his campaign. As far as I am concerned he is the best candidate that this country has had for a very long time. Hopefully he will run again in 2028. I am a true believer that if Biden wins in November that this country will not survive.
I'm with you. If it weren't for these prosecutions, we'd probably have DeSantis as a candidate. Though I wanted Vivek, I'd be thrilled (relatively speaking) to vote for DeSantis in the general.
As a former philandering boss once advised me, “You always pay for your (‘cat,’ shall we say).”
As much as I hate to admit it, given my firm belief that Trump deserves criminal prosecution, I think he stands a good chance of being wrongfully convicted in this case.
In order to elevate falsification of business records to a felony, the prosecution must basically prove it was done for the purpose of unlawfully influencing the outcome of the 2016 election. Though I disagree with Erick about this case constituting prosecution of a campaign finance violation (said violation being not the charged offense, but only an element thereof), the alternative explanation that Erick points to - namely, keeping his mistresses' allegations from his wife - is ample basis for reasonable doubt on the question of Trump's motive.
Ironically, in order to pursue this defense, Trump would have to take the stand. Should he do so, however, he would be subject to cross examination, focusing in particular on his credibility. Given Trump's longstanding and ongoing estrangement from the truth, he would be utterly and completely destroyed. So he can't take the stand and thereby offer the defense that in anyone else's case, would likely have dissuaded the prosecution from even pursuing these charges in the first place. I mean, talk about being hoisted with one's own petard . . . .
(Now here, let me pause and remind you that over just the last few days, Trump has repeatedly said that he will indeed testify. Assuming that he has been advised by even minimally competent counsel, he knows better. So when he does not in fact testify, you will have yet another instance of Trump shamelessly lying to you that you must somehow manage to ignore.)
This is one of the reasons I have such a problem with the two choices we have with this year’s presidential election: both candidates are absolutely shameless liars. I’m disappointed that the two parties can’t/won’t nominate more credible candidates.
They are targeting Donald Trump but he gave the the bullseye to pin on him. Deciding who is lower here is hard. My sympathies are to Melania who has to live through a trial in which her husband is accused of buying the silence of a pornstar who he had a go inbetween the sheets with.
Democrats today are politically far less moral than Trump. They demonstrate zero principles other than anything they think they can get away with to win. Bill Clinton started the trend toward the moral gutter.
When Trump became President the democrats swore they would bankrupt him and put him in jail, they are trying everything they can and all just before the election
Fox reports on Iran attack, earthquakes, trump trials, etc.
MSNBC ONLY reports on negative things about Trump.
Have Trump's lawyers filed a motion to dismiss? This is headed to the SCOTUS. New York should be liable for his legal fees.
Your legal analysis of the Trump trial seems accurate! If there is No Case how can Bragg and the Judge proceed with one? I've always wondered where the impetus comes from for any of these people to carry out misrepresentations that fly in the face of common sense or in this case legality.
I think they are getting paid or otherwise compensated by some higher authority. I don't think it was Bragg's idea to accuse Trump, especially if he's a competent attorney. It's a political hit job. Could it be Obama? Or the DNC? Or simply the Biden administration?
Or could it be that Trump actually broke New York law?
One of the criticisms I have heard against this prosecutor is that in other cases, he is reducing felony charges to misdemeanors while doing the exact opposite in Trump's case. In my view, however, that does not mean Trump should get a pass. Rather, if convictions can be obtained, those other felonies should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
In any case where the accused gets convicted, the prosecutor would not have been doing his job had he foregone prosecution.
Not if you read the facts of the case in this case. The law & proper judicial behavior has been twisted worse than inside out. Both the Judge & DA should be sanctioned by their respected boards.
The jury will most certainly "read the facts of the case" and unless each and every element of the charge is proved beyond a reasonable doubt, Trump should walk. If they convict him, on the other hand, I suspect that you will then want the jury sanctioned, but I doubt that this is possible.
In a case that should not have been brought, especially before the election. Yes, there should have been a change of venue tried though at least they are doing one thing right using a better jury questionaire. However, there is probably no where he could get an honest impartial jury and they know that and still they brought it after Feds didn't, after statute of limitations, etc., and with actual dangerous criminals not being prosecuted and a backlog of cases. That to me constitutes premeditated election interference as it never would have been brought otherwise.
Regarding your assertion that this is all about election interference, you are of course aware that Trump's former fixer, Michael Cohen, faced prosecution for the same transactions for which Trump is now being held to account . . . and he's not running for anything.
pretty simple. Given the current events in the Middle East and how badly Joe Biden is.
The two words I have for this whole ordeal is WHO CARES!
People should still vote for trump and should still get Joe Biden out of office.
I said this is why we needed someone else as the nominee, even if that was hailey. But we got who we got and we need to support them.
Trump is womanizing, brash, boorish, business man with a routine of letting his mouth be his guide. None of that, will raise my taxes, get my daughter beaten or raped in the locker room by a mentally ill dude, cause inflation to rise, or start WW3. A Joe Biden 2nd term will do all of that and more. So no, I don't care that Trump is a womanizing brash loudmouthed SOB. He gets the job done, that's all I care about right now.
Trump has the money for his day in court. Do you? “Justice” can be used to intimidate anyone.
I’ve had the same cell phone number for 25 years. I get amber alerts and political texts from palm beach Florida . I live in New Jersey and have never been there or near there. How do I defend myself when an alphabet agency comes for me for something that happened there?
Oh please.
There once was this fella named Al Capone. Unable to get him off the streets for all the crimes he was committing, someone came up with the novel idea of prosecuting him for tax evasion and it worked. That didn't mean that suddenly, slews of ordinary Americans started getting prosecuted for tax evasion.
I would not dismiss out of hand the concern that Trump's prosecution sets a precedent that could be repeated against other politicians. Unless you're going to run for President or some other high office, however, the notion that they're coming for you next is a little absurd.
It does, the law works on precedents and the behavior of various DA's & Judges has been very much against proper conduct and procedures. The perception of bias is the standard check and, in these cases, actual known bias is being ignored. That is not a good look for our impartial system.
You might take that up with Justice Clarence Thomas, who refuses to recuse himself from cases involving efforts to overturn the 2020 elections, in which efforts his wife participated.
On the texts I reply with Stop All. I also use the App HIYA
While this is the worst of the cases against Trump, all of them are more revenge based than fact based.
Bingo Erick! Facts are facts but there is one fact we do not know. Exactly what he has truly done in his personal life and what has been manufactured by a press that hates him and his policies and a Democrat party that hates the same. And if Trump’s personal life is imperfect, who walks among us that hadn’t sinned. All I know is we were much better off economically and geopolitically under Trump. Democracy didn’t end. Gays and trans individuals weren’t persecuted. Women were still able to have abortions. They still are even with the end of RvW. The press lied about Russia Collusion. They lied about the phony Ukraine corruption impeachment. They lied about Covid and censored scientists that knew otherwise, they lied about the Taliban bounty story. They lied about the Hunter Biden laptop. The list goes on and on. The true chaos during the Trump administration was caused by the press and frankly I think the fact he called them on their BS and punched back was cheered on by a majority of the country and a vast majority on the right.
Erick, I agree with 99% of what you say, but I disagree that Trump’s behavior brought thon upon himself. This is a political action that Bragg and Willis would have done to any Republican nominee. His behavior could certainly be better, but which examples of his bad behavior are true, and which have been generated by the media?
I support Trump’s policies- I have always added “in spite of his behavior “. But I have no way to know which of his misdeeds are fact and which are fiction. We are living in DC Comic’s Bizarro World.
The main problem that I have with the notion that any Republican nominee would be subjected to the same treatment is this: until Trump, none of them have been. Reagan wasn't prosecuted after Iran-Contra. Bush wasn't prosecuted after "enhanced interrogation," which was quite arguably a violation of international law. You see, Trump is a unique case.
Until Trump, no President had failed to transfer power peacefully in the entire 230+ years of this constitutional republic. Until Trump, no former President took classified documents with him and then not only refused to give them back, but lied about having done so. Until Trump, no politician undertook an unremitting effort to undermine public confidence in the electoral process that forms the bedrock of our democracy.
As for your uncertainty about the facts, that is what we have trials for. Indeed in the context of a criminal trial, each and every fact constituting an element of the crime must be proven to the UNANIMOUS satisfaction of twelve ordinary citizens, AND beyond a reasonable doubt. That is a high standard, which this prosecution may or may not be able to surmount. However, don't be surprised if until Trump, no other presidential nominee of a major party was a convicted felon.
If you want to talk campaign fraud let's talk Maxine Waters, Ilhan Omar, and Cori Bush
All well and good, but this judge and jury are still likely to convict. Appeal would take too long
Yeah, this trial really irks me that it got to this point both because it's utter bull sh_t, and because it gives the Trump leg humpers ammunition to mistakenly believe that all prosecutions of Trump or attempts to hold him accountable for his actions are "weaponization of government" or "lawfare" or some other made up dumbassery words to make Trump the victim. The prosecutions of Trump in DC, FL, and GA are all very legitimate, but many people don't have the capacity for nuance. So people on the right think Trump is the most prosecuted president / politician of all time because of TDS or whatever other nonsense just because some people do have some levels of TDS.
Just like the left's argument that the different levels of incarceration of some demographics is because of racism/sexism (some police / judges, etc. obviously have some levels of racism). But in each case Trump prosecutions, and different levels of incarceration the key driving force is the differing rate of criminality (i.e. Trump: before, during, and after his presidency has committed more crimes than all other presidents combined)
I guess we will need 6 years of investigations of President Biden to prove your claim.
At least the Trump leg humpers in congress have got a nice year plus start on this important work - so far have come uπ with bupkis.
Since I am no fan of Biden, I'd be happy to see him prosecuted if anything turns up.
If I were you I think that I would consider taking a long vacation until after the election. I believe your TDS is making you physically ill.
I think you may be confused about what TDS is. It's not a venereal disease. It's not like I cheated on my wife by having unprotected "relations" with pornstars like President P_ssy Grabber and caught it that way. So no physical affects.
It's more of a mindset that allows me to see through the near uniform conservative media mandated leg humping of Trump to see him for the repeated law breaker that he is.
Actually, TDS is a mindset that prevents you from separating your rage from reality.
How many of you have actually read any of the detailed indictments against Trump directly from the source? Listened to the quotes from his former cabinet / staff about his conduct (Bill Bar, General Kelley, Bolton, etc.)?, listened to the full audio of his recorded call with Raffensperger?, looked at the related court pleadings of Guiliani, Taveras, and other coconspirators?, listened to those in the room with him during J6?, etc. vs. just getting information spoon-fed to you from conservative media hosts whose livelihood depends on being deferential to Trump.
It's weird how so many of us can see the manipulation of information by media on the other side, but are blind to it on our side.
I am sure many of us read the information rather than just listening to it. However, as we can see from your rants, reading is not the same as understanding what you have read, because you have, assuming you formed your opinion from the reading, grossly misinterpreted much of what you have read. It would behoove you to not just read, but also to temper your TDS and listen to people who have legitimate law backgrounds to decipher what you think you have read.
Well I'm displaying objectivity by noting that this NY case is BS while the others are not. You seem to be saying that there is no merit in any prosecution of Trump for anything (that doesn't appear to be that objective)
Also please tell what networks / platforms you've listened to these supposed experts who all uniformly agree with your assessment that Trump has never committed any of the the crimes for which he's accused and ask yourself whether these networks would continue to be as profitable if they deeply offended Trump supporters by saying anything courter to or having other experts who do not agree with Trump's arguments.
I rest my case. You Sir are borderline disgusting.
I couldn't agree more with Blair. January 6th . . . now that was disgusting.
and so it goes.........
It's rich that you are about to enthusiastically vote for someone on his third marriage, whose cheated on all of his wives (the most recent one we are aware of with a porn star), is on tape talking about trying to cheat with a married woman and grabbing others by the p_ssy, has made inappropriate remarks repeatedly about his daughter, was close friends with Jeffrey Epstein, etc. etc. but you are disgusted by someone who points any of this out? I am going to coin a new acronym for people like you. CTA (Cult of Trump Apologists)
Also - None of the above is why I am not voting for Trump. I could look the other way regarding all of it. Its when he illegally tried to end democracy because he was butthurt about losing the last election that did if for me. That is unforgivable.
I have absolutely no enthusiasm for this election. I voted for DeSantis in our primary even though he suspended his campaign. As far as I am concerned he is the best candidate that this country has had for a very long time. Hopefully he will run again in 2028. I am a true believer that if Biden wins in November that this country will not survive.
I'm with you. If it weren't for these prosecutions, we'd probably have DeSantis as a candidate. Though I wanted Vivek, I'd be thrilled (relatively speaking) to vote for DeSantis in the general.
DeSantis!