As much as I hate to admit it, given my firm belief that Trump deserves criminal prosecution, I think he stands a good chance of being wrongfully convicted in this case.
In order to elevate falsification of business records to a felony, the prosecution must basically prove it was done for the purpose of unlawfully influencing the outcome of the 2016 election. Though I disagree with Erick about this case constituting prosecution of a campaign finance violation (said violation being not the charged offense, but only an element thereof), the alternative explanation that Erick points to - namely, keeping his mistresses' allegations from his wife - is ample basis for reasonable doubt on the question of Trump's motive.
Ironically, in order to pursue this defense, Trump would have to take the stand. Should he do so, however, he would be subject to cross examination, focusing in particular on his credibility. Given Trump's longstanding and ongoing estrangement from the truth, he would be utterly and completely destroyed. So he can't take the stand and thereby offer the defense that in anyone else's case, would likely have dissuaded the prosecution from even pursuing these charges in the first place. I mean, talk about being hoisted with one's own petard . . . .
(Now here, let me pause and remind you that over just the last few days, Trump has repeatedly said that he will indeed testify. Assuming that he has been advised by even minimally competent counsel, he knows better. So when he does not in fact testify, you will have yet another instance of Trump shamelessly lying to you that you must somehow manage to ignore.)
This is one of the reasons I have such a problem with the two choices we have with this year’s presidential election: both candidates are absolutely shameless liars. I’m disappointed that the two parties can’t/won’t nominate more credible candidates.
They are targeting Donald Trump but he gave the the bullseye to pin on him. Deciding who is lower here is hard. My sympathies are to Melania who has to live through a trial in which her husband is accused of buying the silence of a pornstar who he had a go inbetween the sheets with.
Democrats today are politically far less moral than Trump. They demonstrate zero principles other than anything they think they can get away with to win. Bill Clinton started the trend toward the moral gutter.
When Trump became President the democrats swore they would bankrupt him and put him in jail, they are trying everything they can and all just before the election
Your legal analysis of the Trump trial seems accurate! If there is No Case how can Bragg and the Judge proceed with one? I've always wondered where the impetus comes from for any of these people to carry out misrepresentations that fly in the face of common sense or in this case legality.
I think they are getting paid or otherwise compensated by some higher authority. I don't think it was Bragg's idea to accuse Trump, especially if he's a competent attorney. It's a political hit job. Could it be Obama? Or the DNC? Or simply the Biden administration?
Or could it be that Trump actually broke New York law?
One of the criticisms I have heard against this prosecutor is that in other cases, he is reducing felony charges to misdemeanors while doing the exact opposite in Trump's case. In my view, however, that does not mean Trump should get a pass. Rather, if convictions can be obtained, those other felonies should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
In any case where the accused gets convicted, the prosecutor would not have been doing his job had he foregone prosecution.
Not if you read the facts of the case in this case. The law & proper judicial behavior has been twisted worse than inside out. Both the Judge & DA should be sanctioned by their respected boards.
The jury will most certainly "read the facts of the case" and unless each and every element of the charge is proved beyond a reasonable doubt, Trump should walk. If they convict him, on the other hand, I suspect that you will then want the jury sanctioned, but I doubt that this is possible.
In a case that should not have been brought, especially before the election. Yes, there should have been a change of venue tried though at least they are doing one thing right using a better jury questionaire. However, there is probably no where he could get an honest impartial jury and they know that and still they brought it after Feds didn't, after statute of limitations, etc., and with actual dangerous criminals not being prosecuted and a backlog of cases. That to me constitutes premeditated election interference as it never would have been brought otherwise.
Regarding your assertion that this is all about election interference, you are of course aware that Trump's former fixer, Michael Cohen, faced prosecution for the same transactions for which Trump is now being held to account . . . and he's not running for anything.
pretty simple. Given the current events in the Middle East and how badly Joe Biden is.
The two words I have for this whole ordeal is WHO CARES!
People should still vote for trump and should still get Joe Biden out of office.
I said this is why we needed someone else as the nominee, even if that was hailey. But we got who we got and we need to support them.
Trump is womanizing, brash, boorish, business man with a routine of letting his mouth be his guide. None of that, will raise my taxes, get my daughter beaten or raped in the locker room by a mentally ill dude, cause inflation to rise, or start WW3. A Joe Biden 2nd term will do all of that and more. So no, I don't care that Trump is a womanizing brash loudmouthed SOB. He gets the job done, that's all I care about right now.
Trump has the money for his day in court. Do you? “Justice” can be used to intimidate anyone.
I’ve had the same cell phone number for 25 years. I get amber alerts and political texts from palm beach Florida . I live in New Jersey and have never been there or near there. How do I defend myself when an alphabet agency comes for me for something that happened there?
There once was this fella named Al Capone. Unable to get him off the streets for all the crimes he was committing, someone came up with the novel idea of prosecuting him for tax evasion and it worked. That didn't mean that suddenly, slews of ordinary Americans started getting prosecuted for tax evasion.
I would not dismiss out of hand the concern that Trump's prosecution sets a precedent that could be repeated against other politicians. Unless you're going to run for President or some other high office, however, the notion that they're coming for you next is a little absurd.
It does, the law works on precedents and the behavior of various DA's & Judges has been very much against proper conduct and procedures. The perception of bias is the standard check and, in these cases, actual known bias is being ignored. That is not a good look for our impartial system.
You might take that up with Justice Clarence Thomas, who refuses to recuse himself from cases involving efforts to overturn the 2020 elections, in which efforts his wife participated.
Bingo Erick! Facts are facts but there is one fact we do not know. Exactly what he has truly done in his personal life and what has been manufactured by a press that hates him and his policies and a Democrat party that hates the same. And if Trump’s personal life is imperfect, who walks among us that hadn’t sinned. All I know is we were much better off economically and geopolitically under Trump. Democracy didn’t end. Gays and trans individuals weren’t persecuted. Women were still able to have abortions. They still are even with the end of RvW. The press lied about Russia Collusion. They lied about the phony Ukraine corruption impeachment. They lied about Covid and censored scientists that knew otherwise, they lied about the Taliban bounty story. They lied about the Hunter Biden laptop. The list goes on and on. The true chaos during the Trump administration was caused by the press and frankly I think the fact he called them on their BS and punched back was cheered on by a majority of the country and a vast majority on the right.
Erick, I agree with 99% of what you say, but I disagree that Trump’s behavior brought thon upon himself. This is a political action that Bragg and Willis would have done to any Republican nominee. His behavior could certainly be better, but which examples of his bad behavior are true, and which have been generated by the media?
I support Trump’s policies- I have always added “in spite of his behavior “. But I have no way to know which of his misdeeds are fact and which are fiction. We are living in DC Comic’s Bizarro World.
The main problem that I have with the notion that any Republican nominee would be subjected to the same treatment is this: until Trump, none of them have been. Reagan wasn't prosecuted after Iran-Contra. Bush wasn't prosecuted after "enhanced interrogation," which was quite arguably a violation of international law. You see, Trump is a unique case.
Until Trump, no President had failed to transfer power peacefully in the entire 230+ years of this constitutional republic. Until Trump, no former President took classified documents with him and then not only refused to give them back, but lied about having done so. Until Trump, no politician undertook an unremitting effort to undermine public confidence in the electoral process that forms the bedrock of our democracy.
As for your uncertainty about the facts, that is what we have trials for. Indeed in the context of a criminal trial, each and every fact constituting an element of the crime must be proven to the UNANIMOUS satisfaction of twelve ordinary citizens, AND beyond a reasonable doubt. That is a high standard, which this prosecution may or may not be able to surmount. However, don't be surprised if until Trump, no other presidential nominee of a major party was a convicted felon.
This matter is up to the jury and I'm sure the ones who are chosen will have been brainwashed. I'm sure the majority of them do not know or understand the work that Trump did in New York for thousands of people employed and the boost to small businesses and the skyline. As far as his character, we hear it from both sides. The good deeds for people he did quietly and the allegations of his womanizing - can this all be proven or do they just come out of the woodwork to get a payoff. The one statement Ms. Clifford made that makes me feel uneasy about her claims. She said that Trump told her that she reminded him of his daughter, Ivanka. Does anyone believe that these words would have come out of Mr. Trump's mouth about his daughter with the love and respect he has for Ivanka. I don't think so but that is because I am a supporter as opposed to the people who dislike him and believe all the allegations from these women. Especially the Bergdorf assault. I come from New York and worked in Manhattan. The high-end stores were never empty considering you have tourists that walk through there constantly and a dressing room matron and security were always on call.
As much as I hate to admit it, given my firm belief that Trump deserves criminal prosecution, I think he stands a good chance of being wrongfully convicted in this case.
In order to elevate falsification of business records to a felony, the prosecution must basically prove it was done for the purpose of unlawfully influencing the outcome of the 2016 election. Though I disagree with Erick about this case constituting prosecution of a campaign finance violation (said violation being not the charged offense, but only an element thereof), the alternative explanation that Erick points to - namely, keeping his mistresses' allegations from his wife - is ample basis for reasonable doubt on the question of Trump's motive.
Ironically, in order to pursue this defense, Trump would have to take the stand. Should he do so, however, he would be subject to cross examination, focusing in particular on his credibility. Given Trump's longstanding and ongoing estrangement from the truth, he would be utterly and completely destroyed. So he can't take the stand and thereby offer the defense that in anyone else's case, would likely have dissuaded the prosecution from even pursuing these charges in the first place. I mean, talk about being hoisted with one's own petard . . . .
(Now here, let me pause and remind you that over just the last few days, Trump has repeatedly said that he will indeed testify. Assuming that he has been advised by even minimally competent counsel, he knows better. So when he does not in fact testify, you will have yet another instance of Trump shamelessly lying to you that you must somehow manage to ignore.)
This is one of the reasons I have such a problem with the two choices we have with this year’s presidential election: both candidates are absolutely shameless liars. I’m disappointed that the two parties can’t/won’t nominate more credible candidates.
They are targeting Donald Trump but he gave the the bullseye to pin on him. Deciding who is lower here is hard. My sympathies are to Melania who has to live through a trial in which her husband is accused of buying the silence of a pornstar who he had a go inbetween the sheets with.
Democrats today are politically far less moral than Trump. They demonstrate zero principles other than anything they think they can get away with to win. Bill Clinton started the trend toward the moral gutter.
When Trump became President the democrats swore they would bankrupt him and put him in jail, they are trying everything they can and all just before the election
Fox reports on Iran attack, earthquakes, trump trials, etc.
MSNBC ONLY reports on negative things about Trump.
Have Trump's lawyers filed a motion to dismiss? This is headed to the SCOTUS. New York should be liable for his legal fees.
Your legal analysis of the Trump trial seems accurate! If there is No Case how can Bragg and the Judge proceed with one? I've always wondered where the impetus comes from for any of these people to carry out misrepresentations that fly in the face of common sense or in this case legality.
I think they are getting paid or otherwise compensated by some higher authority. I don't think it was Bragg's idea to accuse Trump, especially if he's a competent attorney. It's a political hit job. Could it be Obama? Or the DNC? Or simply the Biden administration?
Or could it be that Trump actually broke New York law?
One of the criticisms I have heard against this prosecutor is that in other cases, he is reducing felony charges to misdemeanors while doing the exact opposite in Trump's case. In my view, however, that does not mean Trump should get a pass. Rather, if convictions can be obtained, those other felonies should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
In any case where the accused gets convicted, the prosecutor would not have been doing his job had he foregone prosecution.
Not if you read the facts of the case in this case. The law & proper judicial behavior has been twisted worse than inside out. Both the Judge & DA should be sanctioned by their respected boards.
The jury will most certainly "read the facts of the case" and unless each and every element of the charge is proved beyond a reasonable doubt, Trump should walk. If they convict him, on the other hand, I suspect that you will then want the jury sanctioned, but I doubt that this is possible.
In a case that should not have been brought, especially before the election. Yes, there should have been a change of venue tried though at least they are doing one thing right using a better jury questionaire. However, there is probably no where he could get an honest impartial jury and they know that and still they brought it after Feds didn't, after statute of limitations, etc., and with actual dangerous criminals not being prosecuted and a backlog of cases. That to me constitutes premeditated election interference as it never would have been brought otherwise.
Regarding your assertion that this is all about election interference, you are of course aware that Trump's former fixer, Michael Cohen, faced prosecution for the same transactions for which Trump is now being held to account . . . and he's not running for anything.
pretty simple. Given the current events in the Middle East and how badly Joe Biden is.
The two words I have for this whole ordeal is WHO CARES!
People should still vote for trump and should still get Joe Biden out of office.
I said this is why we needed someone else as the nominee, even if that was hailey. But we got who we got and we need to support them.
Trump is womanizing, brash, boorish, business man with a routine of letting his mouth be his guide. None of that, will raise my taxes, get my daughter beaten or raped in the locker room by a mentally ill dude, cause inflation to rise, or start WW3. A Joe Biden 2nd term will do all of that and more. So no, I don't care that Trump is a womanizing brash loudmouthed SOB. He gets the job done, that's all I care about right now.
Trump has the money for his day in court. Do you? “Justice” can be used to intimidate anyone.
I’ve had the same cell phone number for 25 years. I get amber alerts and political texts from palm beach Florida . I live in New Jersey and have never been there or near there. How do I defend myself when an alphabet agency comes for me for something that happened there?
Oh please.
There once was this fella named Al Capone. Unable to get him off the streets for all the crimes he was committing, someone came up with the novel idea of prosecuting him for tax evasion and it worked. That didn't mean that suddenly, slews of ordinary Americans started getting prosecuted for tax evasion.
I would not dismiss out of hand the concern that Trump's prosecution sets a precedent that could be repeated against other politicians. Unless you're going to run for President or some other high office, however, the notion that they're coming for you next is a little absurd.
It does, the law works on precedents and the behavior of various DA's & Judges has been very much against proper conduct and procedures. The perception of bias is the standard check and, in these cases, actual known bias is being ignored. That is not a good look for our impartial system.
You might take that up with Justice Clarence Thomas, who refuses to recuse himself from cases involving efforts to overturn the 2020 elections, in which efforts his wife participated.
On the texts I reply with Stop All. I also use the App HIYA
While this is the worst of the cases against Trump, all of them are more revenge based than fact based.
Bingo Erick! Facts are facts but there is one fact we do not know. Exactly what he has truly done in his personal life and what has been manufactured by a press that hates him and his policies and a Democrat party that hates the same. And if Trump’s personal life is imperfect, who walks among us that hadn’t sinned. All I know is we were much better off economically and geopolitically under Trump. Democracy didn’t end. Gays and trans individuals weren’t persecuted. Women were still able to have abortions. They still are even with the end of RvW. The press lied about Russia Collusion. They lied about the phony Ukraine corruption impeachment. They lied about Covid and censored scientists that knew otherwise, they lied about the Taliban bounty story. They lied about the Hunter Biden laptop. The list goes on and on. The true chaos during the Trump administration was caused by the press and frankly I think the fact he called them on their BS and punched back was cheered on by a majority of the country and a vast majority on the right.
Erick, I agree with 99% of what you say, but I disagree that Trump’s behavior brought thon upon himself. This is a political action that Bragg and Willis would have done to any Republican nominee. His behavior could certainly be better, but which examples of his bad behavior are true, and which have been generated by the media?
I support Trump’s policies- I have always added “in spite of his behavior “. But I have no way to know which of his misdeeds are fact and which are fiction. We are living in DC Comic’s Bizarro World.
The main problem that I have with the notion that any Republican nominee would be subjected to the same treatment is this: until Trump, none of them have been. Reagan wasn't prosecuted after Iran-Contra. Bush wasn't prosecuted after "enhanced interrogation," which was quite arguably a violation of international law. You see, Trump is a unique case.
Until Trump, no President had failed to transfer power peacefully in the entire 230+ years of this constitutional republic. Until Trump, no former President took classified documents with him and then not only refused to give them back, but lied about having done so. Until Trump, no politician undertook an unremitting effort to undermine public confidence in the electoral process that forms the bedrock of our democracy.
As for your uncertainty about the facts, that is what we have trials for. Indeed in the context of a criminal trial, each and every fact constituting an element of the crime must be proven to the UNANIMOUS satisfaction of twelve ordinary citizens, AND beyond a reasonable doubt. That is a high standard, which this prosecution may or may not be able to surmount. However, don't be surprised if until Trump, no other presidential nominee of a major party was a convicted felon.
If you want to talk campaign fraud let's talk Maxine Waters, Ilhan Omar, and Cori Bush
All well and good, but this judge and jury are still likely to convict. Appeal would take too long
This matter is up to the jury and I'm sure the ones who are chosen will have been brainwashed. I'm sure the majority of them do not know or understand the work that Trump did in New York for thousands of people employed and the boost to small businesses and the skyline. As far as his character, we hear it from both sides. The good deeds for people he did quietly and the allegations of his womanizing - can this all be proven or do they just come out of the woodwork to get a payoff. The one statement Ms. Clifford made that makes me feel uneasy about her claims. She said that Trump told her that she reminded him of his daughter, Ivanka. Does anyone believe that these words would have come out of Mr. Trump's mouth about his daughter with the love and respect he has for Ivanka. I don't think so but that is because I am a supporter as opposed to the people who dislike him and believe all the allegations from these women. Especially the Bergdorf assault. I come from New York and worked in Manhattan. The high-end stores were never empty considering you have tourists that walk through there constantly and a dressing room matron and security were always on call.
https://www.elitedaily.com/p/9-donald-trump-quotes-about-ivanka-that-are-super-uncomfortable-8646720
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-ivanka-trump-creepiest-most-unsettling-comments-a-roundup-a7353876.html
If the charges fit, you can't acquit?
Unless your name is Hillary.