For the sake of argument, let’s agree 2020 was stolen. Donald Trump lost in 2020 while in control of the FBI, the Department of Defense, the Department of Justice, and the Department of Homeland Security. He had Republicans in charge in Georgia and Arizona, with legislative majorities in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. And the race was still stolen. Now, with Christopher Wray still at the FBI and Joe Biden in charge of the federal government and Democrats in charge of Arizona, fully entrenched in Pennsylvania and Michigan, in charge now of the Wisconsin Supreme Court, and with Brian Kemp and Brad Raffensperger still in Georgia — how exactly will the election not be stolen from Trump?
Joe and Kam will not be in office come Nov 2024. The Dems closed the country down in 2020 and Covid gave cover for a lot of maneuvering in ballots, software, absentee ballots, drop boxes, etc. In a few months the economy will have a complete meltdown, a lot of it to do with Biden's policies. DT's position is Devine in that he will retake said office. I realize many of the DT haters consider him very amoral. He is no where as amoral as was JFK and MLK, JR. I also realize that Christ was here to make preservation for Sinners and not the self-sacrosanct. I also realize that for Eric to believe this would stretch the elasticity in his belief rubber-band beyond endurance. Believe as you chose, to each his own and to thine ownself be true. Selah
One major difference between JFK/MLK was that they were anything but obnoxious, and they didn't practically proclaim their sinfulness. As such it could be hidden. Trump is boastful and profane and bears false witness against his neighbor -- in his case, leading contenders for the GOP primary, such as Ted Cruz once and Ron DeSantis now -- with impunity. And the self-sacrosanct argument displays an ignorance of Scripture. We have a right to see sin and say so, through righteous (Bible-based) judgement. We just can't place A "Judgement" of Hell or A "Condemnation" to Hell upon the person. That's God's call. Moreover, any transgression (we ALL sin) may be forgiven by The Lord, but only to the ones who repent. Donald Trump and his vainglorious ego never repent. He is a horrible example for our children, Christian or otherwise. Much of America knows sees this and shakes their heads in disgust, and that's why he will never be elected.
Trump is the anti-establishment outsider. The government agencies involved in this massive collusion with big tech to interfere in the election against Trump were headed by swampy insiders and Democrat party faithful. They in effect stole the election. Their actions were unprecedented but clearly coordinated.
If you dissagree, then i ask what is your accepted benchmark for "stealing" do need proof of a masked burglar hauling away ballots to incinerate?
Are you good with the government agencies doing this for the next election to get Democrats elected?
I do expect if Trump is elected is 2024, massive firing will take place in 2025 and new executive controls put in place to prosecute leakers and to prevent political operation on government pay.
Where is the other anti-establishment Republican alternative? Trump was legitimately rejected only one time in your list of dates and even that is debatable. In the 2022 primaries almost every anti-Trump Republican lost their seat. It is common for Republicans that dislike Trump to just (conveniently) leave out the abortion issue when manufactured female rage over that set records for Democrat voter turnout.
The interesting contrast here related to the Twitter Files, is that so much of our Democratic system is corrupted by a Democrat-government-controlled media and big tech... a monolithic political spin machine... a GIANT thumb on the scale of politics that favors Democrats... but also favors the wealthy globalist corporatist elites that really own and fund the system... and thus establishment Republicans join in because of the money.
Many voters blow past their high school personality judgement triggers and support Trump because he is the only candidate against the uniparty establishment. But yes, some people would rather allow the country to keep declining and imploding rather than vote for a president that they personally dislike.
Recent Wisconsin and Colorado elections spell doom for the Republicans, and Republicans better stop with the internal Trump Derangement Syndrome conflicts and recognize that the abortion issue and campus/media-enraged female voters are a bigger problem. Also, without the working class vote that Trump brings, the GOP is a steaming heap of losing.
Not a bad read., I can poke some holes, but there is food for thought, or at least further research to validate.
Politics is downhill from society. Society is complex, elections are complex. Sometimes it is easy, Hillary ignored Wisconsin and lost. Sometimes we want it to be easy, it's Trump's fault.
2020 was Trump's fault. '18 and '22 are more complex.
Trump was a factor, but as you point out so was Dobbs, COVID, the economy, etc.
Trump's candidates won where they were uncontested or less important, they lost where it mattered. That is a fact. Republicans lost the Senate, and have a slim majority in the House because of that fact.
Trump's candidates were poor quality. Ultimately it is the candidate's responsibility to win. But not holding Trump accountable for endorsing (but financially helping) them is a disservice.
There were no "Trump's candidates". Like Trump, they were candidates against the establishment. They were candidates attempting to capture that forgotten voter that won Trump the 2016 election. But the establishment won... and the establishment generally wants Democrats to win... unless a Romney type that is politically ambiguous.
You can blame Trump, but if Roe had not been overturned it is highly likely that the GOP would control the Senate and have a larger majority in the house and several state elections would have flipped to the GOP candidates that you label as MAGA (which is an invective lacking connection to any meaning that justifies it).
Suzy, when she was not working on her undergraduate degree in victim studies and dreaming of a career in left activism, is bombarded with messaging through her media feeds that Trump is a threat to democracy and that Republicans are a threat to her reproductive rights and autonomy. Ironically the former is the lie and the latter is at least partially factual. Both certainly play a part in what motivates her to get out and vote Democrat. So why focus on only one? There are millions of Suzies out there and they are defeating the Republicans at the polls. Trump was starting to bring in the minority vote along with a lock on the working class vote. Outside of what you call MAGA, the Republican party is hated... has no constituent groups supporting it... and really has no messaging or list of ideas that are appealing enough to the electorate to compete with the manufactured female rage machine.
Really, the best move for the GOP is to stop with the TDS and just get behind the candidate that has the best chance of winning. In what insane situation do you see any team fighting among themselves to emerge as the winner? What an easy strategy for Democrats and their media-spin machine... keep ginning up rage with the female voter while also keeping those high-and-mighty morality Republicans in perpetual Lincoln Project behavior. Keep the opposition fighting internally and they, the Democrats, can take over the world.
I think the problem for the stolen election narrative is the same problem the Democrats have with Jan 6, no one cares other than people who what me to care as much as they care.
Neither 2020 nor Jan 6 were Pearl Harbor or 9/11. The nation was aggrieved, Republicans and Democrats respectively were butt hurt.
There absolutely were irregularities, the state level changes to election law/procedures without due process is arguably unconstitutional. The problem is Trump himself, he went to court with DUI lawyer rather than an election law lawyer. He lost in court in front of judges he and George Bush appointed.
We have the data, a vast number of Republicans and most independents rejected Trump and either voted for Biden or did not vote.
Trump will continue to have a following because he did things for the people of this country. With all his baggage, he has shown that he will keep his promises, he cares for the country and he puts the US first. His Make America Great Again plays well when remembering all the great things America has gone and can do again.
I believe the election could be stolen but in a different way than most think. Between Zutterburg’s bucks hiring people in government, Facebook and Meta’s deleting some and favoring others, Googles searches that leave out some in favor of who they want, that new AI that will lean left by only using what it’s handlers want, and Soros’s bucks leaving criminals free to reek havoc, the Democrats have a great head start.
Also, Trump only gets bad press from the media. They are a great brain washing group if you listen to them enough.
Therefore, it is a wonder people who hear this day in and day out are not affected by it.
The thing that may save us are the facts that the Trans movement against kids is evil and people see it, the war against gas and oil feeds inflation and hurts our economy ( BTW CO2 and all other gasses except oxygen, nitrogen and argon make up only .4% yes .4% of the atmosphere), our foreign policy is not well, the leadership of the military (Milly and Austin) cannot conduct a proper withdrawal without equipping our enemies for the next 40 years and our border is a sieve for illegals and deadly drugs. These show the Democrats are in capable of governing this country.
What if...yeah, I know I sound like a conspiracy nut, but...what if the SOLE reason for the indictment in NYC is to bring a weak case that cannot fail to be seen as a political persecution, just so that Trump's base will be fired up, people who don't much like him but like political persecutions even less would rally to him in defiance against the weaponization of the rule of law, other Republicans and Conservatives will be forced to take sides and they will have effectively splintered the Republican Party going into the nominations.
Whether the election was stolen is debatable, but what is not is that it was rigged. Don't believe me, just ask Molly Ball. And as for Trump controlling DOJ, DHS, and particularly the FBI, let's just say I had to pick myself up from the floor on that one. No, both parties and the administrative/security state were after him since the pompous elevator demarking. I pray that he goes away, but that does not mitigate the fact that never in the history of the "republic" has such force been arrayed against a free-born American citizen. Those same forces would be arrayed against Donald Duck, if he were to run as a populist of either party.
I do believe the election was rigged. By states changing voting laws in violation of their own state laws, by not verifying ballots and by massive ballot harvesting. Rigged by media and politicians outright lying, censoring, covering up, and manipulating facts. Heck if one goes back and reads the "manifesto" from that group which details everything they did to interfere with the 2020 election and still walks away saying, "it was a fair election", one must be a bit crazy. And that being said, I do not want Trump to be the candidate. I don't think any republican is going to win the election anyhow, but I still don't want Trump as the candidate.
There’s an old saying stating, “there are no sure things,” specifically referencing future events. Of course, I do believe there is a plan and a known outcome, just not by humanity. Wouldn’t it be better--and even healthier overall--to be optimistic about the future than to live in perpetual expectation of disappointment? Like you, I believe Trump should go home and bask in the glory of the good he accomplished as president. He’s a mistake waiting for an opportunity to occur--mostly due to his lack of impulse control--which is why we’re having this conversation....
If they did/can/could steal it from Trump, what's to keep them from stealing it from anybody the Republicans sponsor? And if the zeal for Trump continues/grows in reaction to the blatant political legal attacks, wouldn't Trump have the best chance in a do-over? Re: only 4 more years....yes, but if he brings in a popular #2 (Desantis? Pompeo?) as VP, it might actually produce 12 more years of relative sanity. (i'm one of those independents who normally votes R in Georgia, btw).
I'm pretty sure DeSantis would not agree to be Trump's VP. I feel Trump, as well as the other Republican candidates, should come together (I know this is just a dream) and agree to not attack each other, but just present their best cases for their particular candidacy. They all have to understand that one of the conservative candidates must win in 2024, and therefore each should agree to heartily support whomever wins the nomination. I feel DeSantis should largely ignore Trump's attacks on him, and only respond to make a correction. DeSantis should actually thank Trump in a campaign for his good policy decisions, but make the case that independents, and disaffected democrats will more likely vote for a fresh face, with a proven strong ability to govern, than for giving Trump another four years.
As Erick has said, it would be a nonstarter to have a Trump/DeSantis ticket as the FL electoral votes wouldn’t be counted. Trump would have to list NY as his residence again.
Stranger things have happened! Depends a lot on how the winds blow in the next 6 months or so. i don't think DeSantis & Trump hate each other; they're competing for the first slot. If Trump gets the nomination, Desantis may see the VP slot as a pathway to 2028? Who do you think Trump would pick for a VP if he gets the nod? i agree with your dream of the Republican party and its candidates coming together. Alas, though, i think the party's egos are too 'diverse' for that. :(
Well, I said it was a dream. Seriously, the other candidates can agree to not respond as well. Trump would stand out as the only one handing out foolish names to demean the other candidates. Kind of wall him off.
Given Trump has personally over seen three consecutive election losses after his 2016 victory I don't want a repeat.
The field would be wide open in '28. Is there a theoretical Democrat candidate that is not bad for America.
Republican voters need to step up if they are actually serious about wanting to win the White House consecutively.
Joe and Kam will not be in office come Nov 2024. The Dems closed the country down in 2020 and Covid gave cover for a lot of maneuvering in ballots, software, absentee ballots, drop boxes, etc. In a few months the economy will have a complete meltdown, a lot of it to do with Biden's policies. DT's position is Devine in that he will retake said office. I realize many of the DT haters consider him very amoral. He is no where as amoral as was JFK and MLK, JR. I also realize that Christ was here to make preservation for Sinners and not the self-sacrosanct. I also realize that for Eric to believe this would stretch the elasticity in his belief rubber-band beyond endurance. Believe as you chose, to each his own and to thine ownself be true. Selah
One major difference between JFK/MLK was that they were anything but obnoxious, and they didn't practically proclaim their sinfulness. As such it could be hidden. Trump is boastful and profane and bears false witness against his neighbor -- in his case, leading contenders for the GOP primary, such as Ted Cruz once and Ron DeSantis now -- with impunity. And the self-sacrosanct argument displays an ignorance of Scripture. We have a right to see sin and say so, through righteous (Bible-based) judgement. We just can't place A "Judgement" of Hell or A "Condemnation" to Hell upon the person. That's God's call. Moreover, any transgression (we ALL sin) may be forgiven by The Lord, but only to the ones who repent. Donald Trump and his vainglorious ego never repent. He is a horrible example for our children, Christian or otherwise. Much of America knows sees this and shakes their heads in disgust, and that's why he will never be elected.
Isn't it time to shuffle the deck and deal again?
Erick - why do you ignore the Twitter Files?
Trump is the anti-establishment outsider. The government agencies involved in this massive collusion with big tech to interfere in the election against Trump were headed by swampy insiders and Democrat party faithful. They in effect stole the election. Their actions were unprecedented but clearly coordinated.
If you dissagree, then i ask what is your accepted benchmark for "stealing" do need proof of a masked burglar hauling away ballots to incinerate?
Are you good with the government agencies doing this for the next election to get Democrats elected?
I do expect if Trump is elected is 2024, massive firing will take place in 2025 and new executive controls put in place to prosecute leakers and to prevent political operation on government pay.
I agree events change things. It is possible that the Twitter Files and this indictment of Trump get him votes.
The question is, will Republicans and Independents who rejected Trump in 2020 vote for him now?
What is the motivation for them to do so?
Do the Democrat's actions convince them Trump is less crazy?
Do they want to hold up Trump as a middle finger to Democrats?
Trump is still Trump. He hasn't changed. He was rejected, 3 times, '18, '20, '22.
Democrats are also still who they are.
So why is the outcome in '24 any different.
Where is the other anti-establishment Republican alternative? Trump was legitimately rejected only one time in your list of dates and even that is debatable. In the 2022 primaries almost every anti-Trump Republican lost their seat. It is common for Republicans that dislike Trump to just (conveniently) leave out the abortion issue when manufactured female rage over that set records for Democrat voter turnout.
The interesting contrast here related to the Twitter Files, is that so much of our Democratic system is corrupted by a Democrat-government-controlled media and big tech... a monolithic political spin machine... a GIANT thumb on the scale of politics that favors Democrats... but also favors the wealthy globalist corporatist elites that really own and fund the system... and thus establishment Republicans join in because of the money.
Many voters blow past their high school personality judgement triggers and support Trump because he is the only candidate against the uniparty establishment. But yes, some people would rather allow the country to keep declining and imploding rather than vote for a president that they personally dislike.
Recent Wisconsin and Colorado elections spell doom for the Republicans, and Republicans better stop with the internal Trump Derangement Syndrome conflicts and recognize that the abortion issue and campus/media-enraged female voters are a bigger problem. Also, without the working class vote that Trump brings, the GOP is a steaming heap of losing.
"Anti-establishment Republican"? What is that?
Kevin McCarthy is an establishment Republican, Sean Hannity shills for the establishment Republicans.
What s an Anti-establishment Republican"? Are you splitting the GOP?
Trump is running for the GOP nomination. He needs a majority of GOP voters in the general.
Erick Erickson has great breakdown of voter alignment and just how small the a % of voters a candidate is going after. I can't find it. Some like....
Only 60% of eligible voters vote, 40% of the 60% are Independents, so roughly 25%.
16% of voters go Republican no matter what
16 % of voters go Democrat no matter what
Of the 25% of independents some % are 1 issue voters that will put them in on camp or the other.
Less than 20% of the votes will determine the outcome and then the electoral college map is factored in.
I hear backlash against Alvin Bragg, that is not necessarily backlash against the DNC, and it certainly does not equal support for Trump.
I want to win in '24 and '28 and '32...
https://socialmisfit.substack.com/p/the-lonely-lost-losers-that-are-the
Not a bad read., I can poke some holes, but there is food for thought, or at least further research to validate.
Politics is downhill from society. Society is complex, elections are complex. Sometimes it is easy, Hillary ignored Wisconsin and lost. Sometimes we want it to be easy, it's Trump's fault.
2020 was Trump's fault. '18 and '22 are more complex.
Trump was a factor, but as you point out so was Dobbs, COVID, the economy, etc.
Trump's candidates won where they were uncontested or less important, they lost where it mattered. That is a fact. Republicans lost the Senate, and have a slim majority in the House because of that fact.
Trump's candidates were poor quality. Ultimately it is the candidate's responsibility to win. But not holding Trump accountable for endorsing (but financially helping) them is a disservice.
There were no "Trump's candidates". Like Trump, they were candidates against the establishment. They were candidates attempting to capture that forgotten voter that won Trump the 2016 election. But the establishment won... and the establishment generally wants Democrats to win... unless a Romney type that is politically ambiguous.
You can blame Trump, but if Roe had not been overturned it is highly likely that the GOP would control the Senate and have a larger majority in the house and several state elections would have flipped to the GOP candidates that you label as MAGA (which is an invective lacking connection to any meaning that justifies it).
Suzy, when she was not working on her undergraduate degree in victim studies and dreaming of a career in left activism, is bombarded with messaging through her media feeds that Trump is a threat to democracy and that Republicans are a threat to her reproductive rights and autonomy. Ironically the former is the lie and the latter is at least partially factual. Both certainly play a part in what motivates her to get out and vote Democrat. So why focus on only one? There are millions of Suzies out there and they are defeating the Republicans at the polls. Trump was starting to bring in the minority vote along with a lock on the working class vote. Outside of what you call MAGA, the Republican party is hated... has no constituent groups supporting it... and really has no messaging or list of ideas that are appealing enough to the electorate to compete with the manufactured female rage machine.
Really, the best move for the GOP is to stop with the TDS and just get behind the candidate that has the best chance of winning. In what insane situation do you see any team fighting among themselves to emerge as the winner? What an easy strategy for Democrats and their media-spin machine... keep ginning up rage with the female voter while also keeping those high-and-mighty morality Republicans in perpetual Lincoln Project behavior. Keep the opposition fighting internally and they, the Democrats, can take over the world.
I think the problem for the stolen election narrative is the same problem the Democrats have with Jan 6, no one cares other than people who what me to care as much as they care.
Neither 2020 nor Jan 6 were Pearl Harbor or 9/11. The nation was aggrieved, Republicans and Democrats respectively were butt hurt.
There absolutely were irregularities, the state level changes to election law/procedures without due process is arguably unconstitutional. The problem is Trump himself, he went to court with DUI lawyer rather than an election law lawyer. He lost in court in front of judges he and George Bush appointed.
We have the data, a vast number of Republicans and most independents rejected Trump and either voted for Biden or did not vote.
Trump will continue to have a following because he did things for the people of this country. With all his baggage, he has shown that he will keep his promises, he cares for the country and he puts the US first. His Make America Great Again plays well when remembering all the great things America has gone and can do again.
I believe the election could be stolen but in a different way than most think. Between Zutterburg’s bucks hiring people in government, Facebook and Meta’s deleting some and favoring others, Googles searches that leave out some in favor of who they want, that new AI that will lean left by only using what it’s handlers want, and Soros’s bucks leaving criminals free to reek havoc, the Democrats have a great head start.
Also, Trump only gets bad press from the media. They are a great brain washing group if you listen to them enough.
Therefore, it is a wonder people who hear this day in and day out are not affected by it.
The thing that may save us are the facts that the Trans movement against kids is evil and people see it, the war against gas and oil feeds inflation and hurts our economy ( BTW CO2 and all other gasses except oxygen, nitrogen and argon make up only .4% yes .4% of the atmosphere), our foreign policy is not well, the leadership of the military (Milly and Austin) cannot conduct a proper withdrawal without equipping our enemies for the next 40 years and our border is a sieve for illegals and deadly drugs. These show the Democrats are in capable of governing this country.
What if...yeah, I know I sound like a conspiracy nut, but...what if the SOLE reason for the indictment in NYC is to bring a weak case that cannot fail to be seen as a political persecution, just so that Trump's base will be fired up, people who don't much like him but like political persecutions even less would rally to him in defiance against the weaponization of the rule of law, other Republicans and Conservatives will be forced to take sides and they will have effectively splintered the Republican Party going into the nominations.
That's exactly what's happening. Trump is the only candidate Biden can beat and the Dems know it. Today's "Republican base" is so easily manipulated.
Nope. They are not that crafty. They just want the photos and story for their campaigns. It is the abortion issue that will determine 2024.
I don’t know about that that. They did almost the same thing in the midterm, supporting crazy primary candidates.
Whether the election was stolen is debatable, but what is not is that it was rigged. Don't believe me, just ask Molly Ball. And as for Trump controlling DOJ, DHS, and particularly the FBI, let's just say I had to pick myself up from the floor on that one. No, both parties and the administrative/security state were after him since the pompous elevator demarking. I pray that he goes away, but that does not mitigate the fact that never in the history of the "republic" has such force been arrayed against a free-born American citizen. Those same forces would be arrayed against Donald Duck, if he were to run as a populist of either party.
I do believe the election was rigged. By states changing voting laws in violation of their own state laws, by not verifying ballots and by massive ballot harvesting. Rigged by media and politicians outright lying, censoring, covering up, and manipulating facts. Heck if one goes back and reads the "manifesto" from that group which details everything they did to interfere with the 2020 election and still walks away saying, "it was a fair election", one must be a bit crazy. And that being said, I do not want Trump to be the candidate. I don't think any republican is going to win the election anyhow, but I still don't want Trump as the candidate.
There’s an old saying stating, “there are no sure things,” specifically referencing future events. Of course, I do believe there is a plan and a known outcome, just not by humanity. Wouldn’t it be better--and even healthier overall--to be optimistic about the future than to live in perpetual expectation of disappointment? Like you, I believe Trump should go home and bask in the glory of the good he accomplished as president. He’s a mistake waiting for an opportunity to occur--mostly due to his lack of impulse control--which is why we’re having this conversation....
This is just very well reasoned. Not to mention the insurmountable baggage Trump brings--baggage of his own getting, BTW ...
If they did/can/could steal it from Trump, what's to keep them from stealing it from anybody the Republicans sponsor? And if the zeal for Trump continues/grows in reaction to the blatant political legal attacks, wouldn't Trump have the best chance in a do-over? Re: only 4 more years....yes, but if he brings in a popular #2 (Desantis? Pompeo?) as VP, it might actually produce 12 more years of relative sanity. (i'm one of those independents who normally votes R in Georgia, btw).
I'm pretty sure DeSantis would not agree to be Trump's VP. I feel Trump, as well as the other Republican candidates, should come together (I know this is just a dream) and agree to not attack each other, but just present their best cases for their particular candidacy. They all have to understand that one of the conservative candidates must win in 2024, and therefore each should agree to heartily support whomever wins the nomination. I feel DeSantis should largely ignore Trump's attacks on him, and only respond to make a correction. DeSantis should actually thank Trump in a campaign for his good policy decisions, but make the case that independents, and disaffected democrats will more likely vote for a fresh face, with a proven strong ability to govern, than for giving Trump another four years.
As Erick has said, it would be a nonstarter to have a Trump/DeSantis ticket as the FL electoral votes wouldn’t be counted. Trump would have to list NY as his residence again.
Stranger things have happened! Depends a lot on how the winds blow in the next 6 months or so. i don't think DeSantis & Trump hate each other; they're competing for the first slot. If Trump gets the nomination, Desantis may see the VP slot as a pathway to 2028? Who do you think Trump would pick for a VP if he gets the nod? i agree with your dream of the Republican party and its candidates coming together. Alas, though, i think the party's egos are too 'diverse' for that. :(
Yep, probably right.
Good luck convincing Trump to put the party's interests, or anyone else's for that matter, above his own. Do you not know him by now?
Well, I said it was a dream. Seriously, the other candidates can agree to not respond as well. Trump would stand out as the only one handing out foolish names to demean the other candidates. Kind of wall him off.