The great trend of “whataboutism” has essentially become one side dismissing a valid argument when the other points out that side has similar issues. It can also be that a side with problems that refuses to deal with those problems deflects by pointing out the other side has those problems.
Neil, I get what you are saying. There is enough lying to go around and around in Washington. There is enough hate by one half of our population for the other, back and forth, to go around and around. Much of that hate has been created because NONE of us have anywhere to go to find the truth anymore. We are all making judgements of every situation based on half truths, conspiracy theories and emotions. I did not like Trump's manner of speaking, he was never a slick politician and, yes, he was prone to hyperbole and his ego is a fatal flaw. BUT, in my most humble opinion, what he did for this country was wonderful. I will not concede that. I believe there were many irregularities in this election ( not enough to overturn it ) and he had every right to contest each and every example. However, he took it too far for too long. I resent your 'lumping' me in with the capitol protesters. You don't know my heart nor the heart of other Republicans who feel something with the election was not right. If we are ever to trust our electoral system again....we better figure out how to fix it.
For the most part, I again agree with Erick. Having already spoken out against Marjorie Greene, he has the right to ask, "Now what about . . . ." Said in that context, it is not an excuse for misbehavior.
And I'm not sure folks on my side can offer an adequate answer. The recent intensity of our disagreements has made almost all of us hypocrites at one time or another. We need to do better.
I would disagree in one minor respect, however; that being Greene's comparability to Cortez or Watters. To inspire a "lone wolf" or small numbers of people to misbehave - though deplorable and entirely worthy of condemnation - is not comparable to what we saw on January 6th. Greene is either a part or manifestation of something much more dangerous.
Because two wrongs make a right and three rights make a left. Let's not engage in whataboutism, but....what about? Sounds like children to me. Sounds about right.
I am far more unforgiving of Trump than you are, but on this we are in complete agreement. Wutabout Kamala Harris giving Senate chamber tickets to Code Pink protestors to disrupt the Kavanaugh hearings? These kinds of antics - dumping red dye in your crotch and wrestling with security guards - led to the corrosion in behavior that we saw January 6th.
No. Both sides should be held o the same standards. You can choose to be a "two way streeted" and demand reciprocity before condemning what is wrong. Or you can condemn both and do whatever is in your power to have an influence on either or both sides. If your platform is on the right, then you can't use the irresponsibility of the lot to refrain from using your influence. That's childish and a cop-out.
Very well put. Both parties have been uneasy coalitions for a long time. I wonder if the far right/left will jettison themselves, so they can be ideologically pure, leaving the rest of their respective parties smaller but able to work, without having to protect the extremes.
I totally agree with you, Erick. I see the problem as Republicans were so dang tired of being beaten up by the left....politicians, media, big tech....and resentful of being labeled as racists, homophobes, haters, deplorables, and any other horrible adjective you can think of. Our representatives sat there and never fought back. With Trump we FINALLY had someone who would fight for us and now our country is splitting apart. I could just KICK the asses of the fools who stormed the Capitol....it just gave a very dangerous group of people license to change this country forever.
Malcom Forbes once said, "there is no exception to the rule, that everyone likes to be the exception to the rule." And Jesus said, "don't try to remove the speck in your brother's eye until you have removed the log in your own." False equivalences do not raise the bar of discourse, they lower it. I understand why people point out the media's bias but I would rather hear truth spoken by conservatives like Eric than hearing "Well they did it first" all the time. Let Maxine Waters get hoisted on her own petard. Her time is coming. We can't hurry it on by connecting it to the bad behavior of others.
Last week, a group called “CuomoWatch” took a rant of Maxine Waters, encouraging Democrats to harass members of the Trump administration in public, copied it word for word, changing only “Trump” to “Cuomo”, and posted it on Twitter. The condemnation from NY politicians came hard and fast...with multiple people demanding that Twitter ban the group that posted it, multiple politicians claiming it was despicable, unacceptable, “hate speech”, incitement to violence, etc...
When confronted with the indisputable fact (by posting the video of her rant), that those were the words of “Auntie Maxine”, many of those tweets were immediately deleted. But, not before screenshots had captured their tweets, and the mockery intensified. Not one was willing to acknowledge that “their side” had been guilty of the exact same speech they were denouncing. The few who did respond had nothing better to say than “That’s different, because...Trump”.
Nothing has better exemplified the double standard and refusal of Democrats to condemn incitement to violence within their own party. I had to wonder, though, how those Democrats were totally unaware of the origination of that rant...has the bias bubble become so strong that they were genuinely unaware of it?
The Capitol riots played right into the Democrats hands, and I can understand why so many conservatives refused to believe they were Trump supporters...because it violated every tenet of their own beliefs, and they couldn’t believe anyone could be that stupid as to give them such a political gift.
Hate is powerful. Whataboutism, like many things, was perfectly fine the last 4 years when it was focused on Trump. Now, nope, can't have it. The Lincoln Project folks were/are classic Trump hating Rs. I'm curious about the report on their spending and if you see this as problematic or is that is more "status quo" in political groups?
Neil, I get what you are saying. There is enough lying to go around and around in Washington. There is enough hate by one half of our population for the other, back and forth, to go around and around. Much of that hate has been created because NONE of us have anywhere to go to find the truth anymore. We are all making judgements of every situation based on half truths, conspiracy theories and emotions. I did not like Trump's manner of speaking, he was never a slick politician and, yes, he was prone to hyperbole and his ego is a fatal flaw. BUT, in my most humble opinion, what he did for this country was wonderful. I will not concede that. I believe there were many irregularities in this election ( not enough to overturn it ) and he had every right to contest each and every example. However, he took it too far for too long. I resent your 'lumping' me in with the capitol protesters. You don't know my heart nor the heart of other Republicans who feel something with the election was not right. If we are ever to trust our electoral system again....we better figure out how to fix it.
For the most part, I again agree with Erick. Having already spoken out against Marjorie Greene, he has the right to ask, "Now what about . . . ." Said in that context, it is not an excuse for misbehavior.
And I'm not sure folks on my side can offer an adequate answer. The recent intensity of our disagreements has made almost all of us hypocrites at one time or another. We need to do better.
I would disagree in one minor respect, however; that being Greene's comparability to Cortez or Watters. To inspire a "lone wolf" or small numbers of people to misbehave - though deplorable and entirely worthy of condemnation - is not comparable to what we saw on January 6th. Greene is either a part or manifestation of something much more dangerous.
Because two wrongs make a right and three rights make a left. Let's not engage in whataboutism, but....what about? Sounds like children to me. Sounds about right.
I am far more unforgiving of Trump than you are, but on this we are in complete agreement. Wutabout Kamala Harris giving Senate chamber tickets to Code Pink protestors to disrupt the Kavanaugh hearings? These kinds of antics - dumping red dye in your crotch and wrestling with security guards - led to the corrosion in behavior that we saw January 6th.
My advice in politics: Never give the opposition ammunition to use against you.
No. Both sides should be held o the same standards. You can choose to be a "two way streeted" and demand reciprocity before condemning what is wrong. Or you can condemn both and do whatever is in your power to have an influence on either or both sides. If your platform is on the right, then you can't use the irresponsibility of the lot to refrain from using your influence. That's childish and a cop-out.
So, no.
What about the lasers? :) jk. Great piece.
Each issue , one at a time, on its own merits = my preference.
Very well put. Both parties have been uneasy coalitions for a long time. I wonder if the far right/left will jettison themselves, so they can be ideologically pure, leaving the rest of their respective parties smaller but able to work, without having to protect the extremes.
My retort when someone starts 'crabbing' about the right: "I know, we're terrible. Now tell me about yourself"
I totally agree with you, Erick. I see the problem as Republicans were so dang tired of being beaten up by the left....politicians, media, big tech....and resentful of being labeled as racists, homophobes, haters, deplorables, and any other horrible adjective you can think of. Our representatives sat there and never fought back. With Trump we FINALLY had someone who would fight for us and now our country is splitting apart. I could just KICK the asses of the fools who stormed the Capitol....it just gave a very dangerous group of people license to change this country forever.
Amen
Malcom Forbes once said, "there is no exception to the rule, that everyone likes to be the exception to the rule." And Jesus said, "don't try to remove the speck in your brother's eye until you have removed the log in your own." False equivalences do not raise the bar of discourse, they lower it. I understand why people point out the media's bias but I would rather hear truth spoken by conservatives like Eric than hearing "Well they did it first" all the time. Let Maxine Waters get hoisted on her own petard. Her time is coming. We can't hurry it on by connecting it to the bad behavior of others.
“What About” calling for the capitol protestors to be shot?
Last week, a group called “CuomoWatch” took a rant of Maxine Waters, encouraging Democrats to harass members of the Trump administration in public, copied it word for word, changing only “Trump” to “Cuomo”, and posted it on Twitter. The condemnation from NY politicians came hard and fast...with multiple people demanding that Twitter ban the group that posted it, multiple politicians claiming it was despicable, unacceptable, “hate speech”, incitement to violence, etc...
When confronted with the indisputable fact (by posting the video of her rant), that those were the words of “Auntie Maxine”, many of those tweets were immediately deleted. But, not before screenshots had captured their tweets, and the mockery intensified. Not one was willing to acknowledge that “their side” had been guilty of the exact same speech they were denouncing. The few who did respond had nothing better to say than “That’s different, because...Trump”.
Nothing has better exemplified the double standard and refusal of Democrats to condemn incitement to violence within their own party. I had to wonder, though, how those Democrats were totally unaware of the origination of that rant...has the bias bubble become so strong that they were genuinely unaware of it?
The Capitol riots played right into the Democrats hands, and I can understand why so many conservatives refused to believe they were Trump supporters...because it violated every tenet of their own beliefs, and they couldn’t believe anyone could be that stupid as to give them such a political gift.
Hate is powerful. Whataboutism, like many things, was perfectly fine the last 4 years when it was focused on Trump. Now, nope, can't have it. The Lincoln Project folks were/are classic Trump hating Rs. I'm curious about the report on their spending and if you see this as problematic or is that is more "status quo" in political groups?