The Russians and the Chinese are working together to use Ukraine as a proxy to test the resolve of the United States. There is simply no viable scenario where extricating ourselves from the Ukraine invasion elevates the United States standing around the world. On the contrary, every single time the United States has taken a step back from global involvement, the world descends into war. However, for Democrats to claim that anything other than a blank check to Ukraine means we are actively supporting the Russians is simply ludicrous. Where has the nuance gone in conversations about complex foreign policy issues? Here’s what I propose.
We are forgetting the lessons of Vietnam and Afghanistan. The United States should not enter a war unless there is a commitment to do everything necessary to win it. Are we doing that in Ukraine? No ... we are not. Do we want to do that? Do we want to use the full force of the US military to defeat Russia? Are we ready to pay the price for that? Are we really ready for nuclear war so that Ukraine regains Crimea?
We need to negotiate a way out of the briar patch, not get more and more entangled.
Also, after we finally decide to provide F-16’s, you can bet that Zelenskyy will be asking for American soldiers ... and how will we say no after getting in so deep?
If we were writing blank checks, we'd be sending F-16's to Ukraine. If we were writing blank checks, we'd be sending long-range artillery there. We're not. So, that's just BS. Now, we may at some point. An argument can be made that we'll eventually have to, to ensure Russia's defeat. We'll see.
However, this rant is more about placating your Christian Nationalist listeners than making a cogent foreign policy argument.
You made the point about us not sending blank checks I was thinking. I worked flightline on F-16’s for five years and other jets for total of 25. They are complicated, expensive, and take a lot of highly training maintainers beyond the stick actuator who sits in the cockpit.
From 1980, my Georgia Air National Guard wings “Checkered Flag” destination for WW3 was Turkey to degrade Soviet air defenses with our VietNam era Wild Weasels. (I was a weapons loader). We later got newer jets several times.
Until 1990, I thought that it was likely we’d launch our jets; they wouldn’t come back; and our base would get nuked or slimed and we’d all die. Then, the USSR fell, the world was saved as history ended, but almost immediately the USAF started fighting Islamists. I retired in 2011 and now we’re back to proxy fighting Soviets, but the Ukrainian brothers and sisters are bleeding for us and we just get to complain.
I fall on the “side” that says give Ukraine every thing they need yesterday.
I do not buy the worn-out pseudo justification of us taking "a step back from global involvement, the world descends into war." WE are the instigators of Wars over the last 50 years more than any other Nation--with trillion$ wasted and millions killed. And not for a "noble cause" like the neoCon's try to convince us of. Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Serbia, and even Ukraine. Yes, we started the proxy war against Russia with the Maidan Coup in 2014, and have used the constant threat of expanding NATO beyond the border of Germany, as we PROMISED Gorbachev we would not do. We are trying to preserve American hegemony--not for "freedom", but for economic and military dominance.
Well, thanks for replying with a personal touch. :-). I should have said "100's of 1000's killed." I know the count of dead civilian's I saw for our Iraq invasion was approx. 300,000. And I do not fault our enlisted boots on the ground--they served their country and followed orders.
Regarding the other part of my take, coincidentally, Trump accurately pointed out less than 24 hours after my comment, that we started this Ukraine conflict via the Maidan Coup in 2014. I suggest watching "Ukraine On Fire" by Oliver Stone.
I hear more honest and objective wisdom about the Ukraine war from Liberals like Dr. John Mearsheimer, Dr. Jeffrey Sachs, and Sy Hersh, than the warmongering BS coming from neoCon's like Bolton, L. Graham, Pompeo, etc. Funny how the latter totally ignore or deny what lead to this confrontation. You know for a FACT, if Mexico were to join a military alliance with Russia, with the threat of putting nuke warhead missiles south of the Rio Grande--we would not stand idly by.
Anyhow--I agree with most of your ideology Erick, but, although I used to be a diehard neoCon, I have divorced from that vapid foreign policy crap.
I do find it humorous that you threw out the pejorative "alt-right". Label it as you wish (a tactic used to discredit debate of a valid point), but, that doesn't stick to me. Oh well.
We are forgetting the lessons of Vietnam and Afghanistan. The United States should not enter a war unless there is a commitment to do everything necessary to win it. Are we doing that in Ukraine? No ... we are not. Do we want to do that? Do we want to use the full force of the US military to defeat Russia? Are we ready to pay the price for that? Are we really ready for nuclear war so that Ukraine regains Crimea?
We need to negotiate a way out of the briar patch, not get more and more entangled.
Also, after we finally decide to provide F-16’s, you can bet that Zelenskyy will be asking for American soldiers ... and how will we say no after getting in so deep?
If we were writing blank checks, we'd be sending F-16's to Ukraine. If we were writing blank checks, we'd be sending long-range artillery there. We're not. So, that's just BS. Now, we may at some point. An argument can be made that we'll eventually have to, to ensure Russia's defeat. We'll see.
However, this rant is more about placating your Christian Nationalist listeners than making a cogent foreign policy argument.
You made the point about us not sending blank checks I was thinking. I worked flightline on F-16’s for five years and other jets for total of 25. They are complicated, expensive, and take a lot of highly training maintainers beyond the stick actuator who sits in the cockpit.
NATO has to put some of there cash in the pot we can’t finance this by ourselves so let them pay up
We were sold a bill of goods on our initial action regarding Ukraine. Biden said the “toughest sanctions ever” would bring Russia to its knees.
It seems China may have have other ideas, and has bought oil and is providing chips to Russia.
Now we are in a true kobayashi maru scenario….guess we just keep sinking $$ and giving Joe pats on the back.
You should be “all over this” this….maybe a little less MTG 😖
History does not repeat. But the same sort of SOBs appear over and over. As long as Putin is in power give Ukraine all the support possible.
From 1980, my Georgia Air National Guard wings “Checkered Flag” destination for WW3 was Turkey to degrade Soviet air defenses with our VietNam era Wild Weasels. (I was a weapons loader). We later got newer jets several times.
Until 1990, I thought that it was likely we’d launch our jets; they wouldn’t come back; and our base would get nuked or slimed and we’d all die. Then, the USSR fell, the world was saved as history ended, but almost immediately the USAF started fighting Islamists. I retired in 2011 and now we’re back to proxy fighting Soviets, but the Ukrainian brothers and sisters are bleeding for us and we just get to complain.
I fall on the “side” that says give Ukraine every thing they need yesterday.
I do not buy the worn-out pseudo justification of us taking "a step back from global involvement, the world descends into war." WE are the instigators of Wars over the last 50 years more than any other Nation--with trillion$ wasted and millions killed. And not for a "noble cause" like the neoCon's try to convince us of. Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Serbia, and even Ukraine. Yes, we started the proxy war against Russia with the Maidan Coup in 2014, and have used the constant threat of expanding NATO beyond the border of Germany, as we PROMISED Gorbachev we would not do. We are trying to preserve American hegemony--not for "freedom", but for economic and military dominance.
That's some great alt-right nationalist spin, but it is also bullshit.
Well, thanks for replying with a personal touch. :-). I should have said "100's of 1000's killed." I know the count of dead civilian's I saw for our Iraq invasion was approx. 300,000. And I do not fault our enlisted boots on the ground--they served their country and followed orders.
Regarding the other part of my take, coincidentally, Trump accurately pointed out less than 24 hours after my comment, that we started this Ukraine conflict via the Maidan Coup in 2014. I suggest watching "Ukraine On Fire" by Oliver Stone.
I hear more honest and objective wisdom about the Ukraine war from Liberals like Dr. John Mearsheimer, Dr. Jeffrey Sachs, and Sy Hersh, than the warmongering BS coming from neoCon's like Bolton, L. Graham, Pompeo, etc. Funny how the latter totally ignore or deny what lead to this confrontation. You know for a FACT, if Mexico were to join a military alliance with Russia, with the threat of putting nuke warhead missiles south of the Rio Grande--we would not stand idly by.
Anyhow--I agree with most of your ideology Erick, but, although I used to be a diehard neoCon, I have divorced from that vapid foreign policy crap.
I do find it humorous that you threw out the pejorative "alt-right". Label it as you wish (a tactic used to discredit debate of a valid point), but, that doesn't stick to me. Oh well.