An out of context video featuring Ukraine’s President, Volodymyr Zelensky, quoted him claiming American sons and daughters will have to fight and die in Ukraine. Isolationists and pro-Russian propagandists all seized on the video to denounce American funding of Ukraine’s war effort. Understanding Zelensky’s statement in its context, he is right.
In bicycle racing the 'peloton' usually ends up fragmented with sub-groups of 3 to 15 riders who end up 'working together' ( = drafting off one another cooperatively) with groups coalescing and breaking up continuously. The strategy is to get as close to the front as possible when that fragmenting begins - you're guaranteed the worst spot of the lead group, and even a shot at winning.
Which is how life works: Get in with the strongest group you (hopefully) can keep up with, pull like hell for your group, with fine tuning in the final sprint. Too few people understand that
I am usually in synch with you Erick, but on this topic we have opposing views.
Your primary points are:
1.) If we don’t stop Putin in Ukraine he will invade a NATO country next.
2.) The US didn’t provoke Putin because we voted against NATO membership
To the first point, why do you think Russia is a threat to Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia when after a year, and absent NATO airpower and first line weapons, Putin has barely advanced into Ukraine? It is one thing to attack Ukraine, it is another to attack a NATO member. Putin is begging for munitions from Iran and China. Not exactly a juggernaut threat to the rest of Europe.
To your second point, Russia has stated for years that NATO membership for Ukraine is a red line. And for years, the west has marched the NATO line closer to the Russian border. Even as late as November 2021, Blinken stated NATO membership for Ukraine “was on the table.” Please explain specifically why the US is not at least equally to blame for this invasion? And, absent your straw man of Point#1, what is our national interest here?
I agree that Biden is corrupt and at least one path of his many corruptions runs straight to Ukraine. This war provides an effective shield/distraction from investigating the money trail.
I trained to fight the Russians during the Cold War - not defend them when they murder innocents and rape unarmed Ukrainian women and steal every consumer gold that isn’t nailed down in Ukraine.
Reread Erick's essay and substitute the word "Vietnam" for "Ukraine." Now see how this argument works? The whole world will become communist if we let Vietnam fall to communism. And can we effectively sum up our nation's dark memory of Vietnam in one word? How about "draft" for one. Erick, you are wrong. You will convince us that we need to involve ourselves in the war in Ukraine for the purpose of protecting the world from communism just as soon as the USA doesn't have as its largest trading partner on Earth, the PRC to the tune of so many billions and trillions that we have to count the zeros to make sure we write the numbers out correctly. And by the way, where do we draw the line between nations to defend from communism and nations not to defend from communism? I thought that line was NATO? No, Lindsey, I mean Erick has extended that line to defending nations that are near NATO nations? What about nations that are in dominoes range of NATO nations? Hey, I have a great idea! Why don't we spend our blood and treasure to defend every nation on Earth where there is war ... except for all of those pesky warring African nations that we have traditionally ignored ... for some reason ...
In Vietnam we cleaned up the French mess from the 1850’s. This was our proxy war with China. And we lost that war while destroying American pride in our armed forces.
In Afghanistan we fought a proxy war with Russia, for years, and we helped the mujahadeen to win that war.
With the 1st Gulf War, we united Americans, tested our cool new weapons, and restored American pride in our military. Finally, a positive outcome.
Now we are starting to see the juxtaposition of billions sent to Ukraine vs ten’s of thousands of Americans dying from ChinaMex Fentanyl, all while Brandon laughs at MTG and mocks a grieving Mom. What a POC this guy is. My government seems more focused on guarding Ukraine’s borders than ours, and it’s getting uglier each day.
I am all for testing our latest weapon systems in Ukraine, and scaring the crap out of China, but I am truly tired of being attacked by my own government for being a white conservative, Christian. It sickens me that when watching Chris Ray being interviewed, I couldn’t help myself from shouting out “liar liar”. I had to keep rewinding the TiVo to hear what I missed.
Its not a matter of money. America is blessed with a strong economy and the economic means to do just about anything. What we lack is patriotism and political will.
Seal the border. Drone the hell out of the Narco terrorists, no matter where they live. Restore law & order on our streets. Let’s invest billions in US based chip manufacturing so we don't get squeezed with a Taiwan blockade. Let’s get our supply chain working again. Then…. Ask me if I will support endless wars on foreign soil.
When the rest of NATO put up weapons and money at the same rate as USA I would feel Berger about the Ukraine. The Europeans and NATO are the front line they have to fully commit to this war and we have to make sure that the money and supplies sent there gets there,
Yes, China is our real adversary and yes, we should vigorously help Ukraine defend against aggression as we promised to do when they gave up their nukes. That said, do we want Ukraine to win or do we engage in diplomatic/political throttling resulting in an expensive, deadly, and protracted conflict? (The Vietnam 'conflict' comes to mind). True, complex weapons systems in many cases require lengthy training and technical support. And true, Russia's nukes are a complicating factor. But if we want to shut Russia down with prejudice, we need to give them what they need to prevail. //s// a humble conservative Vietnam vet & Naval Warl College graduate.
If any American has a problem with the way we are defending sending arms and money to Ukrainians, it should be that US and Europe aren't sending sufficient arms and supplies fast enough to end this war before it becomes WW3.
This has nothing to do with the myriad of problems caused by our president in our country (borders, inflation, race relations, etc) - it has everything to do with stopping brutal military leaders from destroying everything that is stable and peaceful civilizations in Europe, Asia, and wherever is next.
I think the problem many people have is we are doing the heavy lifting for Europe and letting them off the hook. The have failed to take the threat from Russia seriously while investing in social programs while we are footing the bill for their defense often at the expense of our own people
US has always done the heavy lifting. Biden could pressure Euro leaders to step up (like Trump did with Nato payments), then this problem would be removed.
That is my point, if our allies in NATO had been meeting the defense spending guideline for the last 30 years...how different would Europe look? Would Putin have ever invaded in the first place?
But he saw a NATO where a majority of the countries didn't take defense seriously enough to spend 2% of GDP on defense.
The Ukrainian people have been “doing the heavy lifting.” Also, the Baltic countries and Poland have donated far larger percentages of their GDP than we have.
Louder, for the John Birchers (in tin foil hats) in the back. Thank you. Estonia has, percentage-wise, contributed more than many Western nations. Poland is also stepping up. I could go on….
I blame our media, understandably but lazily focused on our country, for ignoring the blood and treasure contributions of our many allies over the past 22 years. Many Americans are unaware of the numbers of British, German, Italian, French, Canadian, Australian, Norwegian, etc., etc. service members who have died fighting beside Americans since 9/11/2001. If G. W. Bush in 2008 or B. H. Obama in 2014 or J. R. Biden in 2022 had stood up to Putin, this would’ve not happened in Ukraine today.
I'm well aware of our allies that have died fighting alongside us because I was there. I have flown with the Germans, the Brits, the Belgians, the Australians, the Canadians, the Koreans, and the Japanese.
All of that is irrelevant to the issue I raised, which is that for decades our allies in NATO have underfunded their commitments and the US has picked up the tab. I don't care what they have done since Russia invaded the Ukraine, if they had been building up a strong enough defense maybe Russia never would have invaded the Ukraine. It is very easy to make an argument that the US cares more about a free Europe than our European allies in NATO do.
And is the media to blame for the fact you won't acknowledge most NATO member countries do not meet the guidelines for defense spending?
Thank you for that. I stick by saying most Americans are not aware. Heck, it didn’t really hit me until I saw the international militaries in the DFAC while passing through Al Udeid.
This piece moved the needle a bit on my views. Bravo Erick. It also confirmed what I think I know about myself and moderate Christian libertarian conservatives like me… we are of open mind seeking truth.
I do have a bit of a quibble though even though you cover it. The Biden Democrats and the Republican establishment are clearly involved in a project to kill off the American working class and de-industrialize the US and much of the rest of the West. And either to help them or because they see it as their pursuit of self-interest, this American Uniparty with help from the woke left is supporting the WEF Great Reset project, which if you read everything about it, can be identified as just another party of that commitment from Russia, China and Iran to destabilize the US in a post-Brexit, post-Trump era.
Biden is vetoing the bipartisan congressional vote to eliminate the ESG requirement from 401ks. There are so many other fingerprints on the evidence that started for me when Obama was quoted to say that the only way forward was THE liberal global new world order.
I see the Russian invasion of Ukraine as a potential part of this larger well-coordinated and well-funded project by the globalist corporatist cabal having shared interests with China, and with history supporting nations like Iran and opposing nations like Israel, as both a method of media distraction over the larger globalist Great Reset project… while also injecting even more internal political conflict into the American electorate.
I think we took the bait. I think we are already in a global WW and it is 100% Economic in nature. The social woke junk is just a convenient set of well-used collectivist weapons to foment a culture war but only to win the economic war.
The Uniparty is bankrupting the country. We have a growing $1Trillion per year trade deficit. Biden is laughing about opioid deaths. The border is open flooding in millions of poor and uneducated illegal immigrants when we have massive problems taking care of existing Americans. The education system and woke is eliminating our American meritocracy.
Is Putin and the war in Ukraine just another piece of this puzzle? You say American soldiers will need to eventually fight in that war. Well those soldiers will be from the same working-class cohort that the Biden Democrats seem committed to exterminating. And the US involvement in yet another war where our young people will die is sure to add to our political conflict.
I think Putin plays 3D chess, and the assessment of his motivation for Russian expansion through military endeavors, although Crimea appears to be only that, is a bit too checkers.
If the US gets more involved, and even if Russia started to lose and appears to risk being ousted from Ukraine, China and Iran will likely step in. What is positive about that trajectory?
Well said. Full agreement with most of your points ... and with your opener, that Erick's clear writing causes us to look behind the talking points curtain at the real stakes in this conflict.
Our “help” has extended the conflict which has caused billions of dollars in destroyed infrastructure and loss of life on both sides to the order of hundreds of thousands. Sure, let’s “help” more—and “help” Zelensky finish decimating his pseudo country while trying to save it. Loving your logic here. The conflict exists and extends because our leaders want it to.
Great column, Erick. I would add that this “blank check” business is totally misguided. I could write from memory a long list of the available western weapons systems Ukraine desperately needs and has asked for, including fighter jets, longer ranged missiles to hit distant Orc ammo dumps, tanks a year ago, longer ranged UAV’s such as Predators and Gray Eagles that are readily available. There has been no blank check.
Finally, no American in 1939 wanted their sons to die in France, Italy, North Africa, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, over the flak filled skies of Germany, yet 10’s of thousands eventually had to do so.
I still haven't seen or heard a single person who is pro Putin or a Russian propagandist. All I have seen is people wanting accountability for money being sent to a corrupt foreign country and protections for our own borders. I am not fond of this "if you don't agree to send billions to Ukraine, with no accounting for how it is spent, you are pro Putin" argument.
Financial accountability is rarely achieved in war times - heck, in America, we can't even achieve it during peace times. Money and supplies will likely be stolen or wasted. The slow roll that draws out this war longer makes accountability even tougher.
It isn't just during times of War. It is the billions of dollars we spend every year on defense to protect Europe while they invest in Social programs to better the lives of their citizens. Some of us would like them to start paying for their own defense so maybe we can use some of that money back home
Seeing people that question the American instinct to pursue violence and fight global wars being labeled isolationist always bothers me. It is entirely possible to want an engaged foreign policy while also believing the US should play less of a role in global conflict. Having spent 15 years of my life fighting our wars overseas, I would love to see an America that doesn't seem addicted to violence domestically and overseas.
How does blowing up 3 of the 4 Nordstream pipelines fit into this comversation?
In bicycle racing the 'peloton' usually ends up fragmented with sub-groups of 3 to 15 riders who end up 'working together' ( = drafting off one another cooperatively) with groups coalescing and breaking up continuously. The strategy is to get as close to the front as possible when that fragmenting begins - you're guaranteed the worst spot of the lead group, and even a shot at winning.
Which is how life works: Get in with the strongest group you (hopefully) can keep up with, pull like hell for your group, with fine tuning in the final sprint. Too few people understand that
Like it or not I agree with Erick.
Not sure I totally agree with you on this issue.
-If we really threw the clamp on with true sanctions maybe this is over quicker.
-There is no way this kind of money can be spent w/o huge issues of corruption. So….how do we manage this issue.
-I can only go back to Viet Nam and all the government “stop the commies” line….a level of distrust of our baffon leaders is OK.
-So I think you have sipped the Kool Aid….we need to move this bus to reach settlement, not wasted $$
…..my 2 cents
I am usually in synch with you Erick, but on this topic we have opposing views.
Your primary points are:
1.) If we don’t stop Putin in Ukraine he will invade a NATO country next.
2.) The US didn’t provoke Putin because we voted against NATO membership
To the first point, why do you think Russia is a threat to Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia when after a year, and absent NATO airpower and first line weapons, Putin has barely advanced into Ukraine? It is one thing to attack Ukraine, it is another to attack a NATO member. Putin is begging for munitions from Iran and China. Not exactly a juggernaut threat to the rest of Europe.
To your second point, Russia has stated for years that NATO membership for Ukraine is a red line. And for years, the west has marched the NATO line closer to the Russian border. Even as late as November 2021, Blinken stated NATO membership for Ukraine “was on the table.” Please explain specifically why the US is not at least equally to blame for this invasion? And, absent your straw man of Point#1, what is our national interest here?
This position will not age well for you.
Our National interest there will be proven corruption with Biden and Zelensky. Money Time will tell the tale. Maybe Seymore Hersh will take a look.
I agree that Biden is corrupt and at least one path of his many corruptions runs straight to Ukraine. This war provides an effective shield/distraction from investigating the money trail.
That said, I don't see the national interest.
Please take a moment to educate yourself more about Ukraine. Here is a good place to start: https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/russia/we-are-on-the-wrong-side-of-history-with-ukraine/... then go to armstrongeconomics.com and search "Ukraine" and read all of the posts. You may wish not to believe what Martin Armstrong writes, but you should know another side...
No, I don’t believe Russian propagandists.
Do you gaslight everyone with whom you disagree?
“Ukraine isn’t a real country.” is Russian propaganda. Kiev predates Moscow by 500 + years.
Do you believe the US MSM propagandist? Future disclosure will apprise you.
Sorry - should have been, “consumer good.”
I trained to fight the Russians during the Cold War - not defend them when they murder innocents and rape unarmed Ukrainian women and steal every consumer gold that isn’t nailed down in Ukraine.
Reread Erick's essay and substitute the word "Vietnam" for "Ukraine." Now see how this argument works? The whole world will become communist if we let Vietnam fall to communism. And can we effectively sum up our nation's dark memory of Vietnam in one word? How about "draft" for one. Erick, you are wrong. You will convince us that we need to involve ourselves in the war in Ukraine for the purpose of protecting the world from communism just as soon as the USA doesn't have as its largest trading partner on Earth, the PRC to the tune of so many billions and trillions that we have to count the zeros to make sure we write the numbers out correctly. And by the way, where do we draw the line between nations to defend from communism and nations not to defend from communism? I thought that line was NATO? No, Lindsey, I mean Erick has extended that line to defending nations that are near NATO nations? What about nations that are in dominoes range of NATO nations? Hey, I have a great idea! Why don't we spend our blood and treasure to defend every nation on Earth where there is war ... except for all of those pesky warring African nations that we have traditionally ignored ... for some reason ...
RANT…..
In Vietnam we cleaned up the French mess from the 1850’s. This was our proxy war with China. And we lost that war while destroying American pride in our armed forces.
In Afghanistan we fought a proxy war with Russia, for years, and we helped the mujahadeen to win that war.
With the 1st Gulf War, we united Americans, tested our cool new weapons, and restored American pride in our military. Finally, a positive outcome.
Now we are starting to see the juxtaposition of billions sent to Ukraine vs ten’s of thousands of Americans dying from ChinaMex Fentanyl, all while Brandon laughs at MTG and mocks a grieving Mom. What a POC this guy is. My government seems more focused on guarding Ukraine’s borders than ours, and it’s getting uglier each day.
I am all for testing our latest weapon systems in Ukraine, and scaring the crap out of China, but I am truly tired of being attacked by my own government for being a white conservative, Christian. It sickens me that when watching Chris Ray being interviewed, I couldn’t help myself from shouting out “liar liar”. I had to keep rewinding the TiVo to hear what I missed.
Its not a matter of money. America is blessed with a strong economy and the economic means to do just about anything. What we lack is patriotism and political will.
Seal the border. Drone the hell out of the Narco terrorists, no matter where they live. Restore law & order on our streets. Let’s invest billions in US based chip manufacturing so we don't get squeezed with a Taiwan blockade. Let’s get our supply chain working again. Then…. Ask me if I will support endless wars on foreign soil.
Cheers
When the rest of NATO put up weapons and money at the same rate as USA I would feel Berger about the Ukraine. The Europeans and NATO are the front line they have to fully commit to this war and we have to make sure that the money and supplies sent there gets there,
Look at Estonia… and Poland.
Also look at France Germany Denmark Norway Italy etc. etc.
Yes, China is our real adversary and yes, we should vigorously help Ukraine defend against aggression as we promised to do when they gave up their nukes. That said, do we want Ukraine to win or do we engage in diplomatic/political throttling resulting in an expensive, deadly, and protracted conflict? (The Vietnam 'conflict' comes to mind). True, complex weapons systems in many cases require lengthy training and technical support. And true, Russia's nukes are a complicating factor. But if we want to shut Russia down with prejudice, we need to give them what they need to prevail. //s// a humble conservative Vietnam vet & Naval Warl College graduate.
Thank you. They won’t listen but thank you.
If any American has a problem with the way we are defending sending arms and money to Ukrainians, it should be that US and Europe aren't sending sufficient arms and supplies fast enough to end this war before it becomes WW3.
This has nothing to do with the myriad of problems caused by our president in our country (borders, inflation, race relations, etc) - it has everything to do with stopping brutal military leaders from destroying everything that is stable and peaceful civilizations in Europe, Asia, and wherever is next.
You think Reagan would be all-in on Ukraine? I doubt it.
Reagan is my favorite president. I think he would have honored our country's commitment to protect Ukraine.
Reagan would have inspired Europe to honor their commitment, which is even more impressive
He would have protected ours first.
I think the problem many people have is we are doing the heavy lifting for Europe and letting them off the hook. The have failed to take the threat from Russia seriously while investing in social programs while we are footing the bill for their defense often at the expense of our own people
US has always done the heavy lifting. Biden could pressure Euro leaders to step up (like Trump did with Nato payments), then this problem would be removed.
That is my point, if our allies in NATO had been meeting the defense spending guideline for the last 30 years...how different would Europe look? Would Putin have ever invaded in the first place?
But he saw a NATO where a majority of the countries didn't take defense seriously enough to spend 2% of GDP on defense.
The Ukrainian people have been “doing the heavy lifting.” Also, the Baltic countries and Poland have donated far larger percentages of their GDP than we have.
Louder, for the John Birchers (in tin foil hats) in the back. Thank you. Estonia has, percentage-wise, contributed more than many Western nations. Poland is also stepping up. I could go on….
I blame our media, understandably but lazily focused on our country, for ignoring the blood and treasure contributions of our many allies over the past 22 years. Many Americans are unaware of the numbers of British, German, Italian, French, Canadian, Australian, Norwegian, etc., etc. service members who have died fighting beside Americans since 9/11/2001. If G. W. Bush in 2008 or B. H. Obama in 2014 or J. R. Biden in 2022 had stood up to Putin, this would’ve not happened in Ukraine today.
I'm well aware of our allies that have died fighting alongside us because I was there. I have flown with the Germans, the Brits, the Belgians, the Australians, the Canadians, the Koreans, and the Japanese.
All of that is irrelevant to the issue I raised, which is that for decades our allies in NATO have underfunded their commitments and the US has picked up the tab. I don't care what they have done since Russia invaded the Ukraine, if they had been building up a strong enough defense maybe Russia never would have invaded the Ukraine. It is very easy to make an argument that the US cares more about a free Europe than our European allies in NATO do.
And is the media to blame for the fact you won't acknowledge most NATO member countries do not meet the guidelines for defense spending?
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_197050.htm
https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/27278.jpeg
Thank you for that. I stick by saying most Americans are not aware. Heck, it didn’t really hit me until I saw the international militaries in the DFAC while passing through Al Udeid.
This piece moved the needle a bit on my views. Bravo Erick. It also confirmed what I think I know about myself and moderate Christian libertarian conservatives like me… we are of open mind seeking truth.
I do have a bit of a quibble though even though you cover it. The Biden Democrats and the Republican establishment are clearly involved in a project to kill off the American working class and de-industrialize the US and much of the rest of the West. And either to help them or because they see it as their pursuit of self-interest, this American Uniparty with help from the woke left is supporting the WEF Great Reset project, which if you read everything about it, can be identified as just another party of that commitment from Russia, China and Iran to destabilize the US in a post-Brexit, post-Trump era.
Biden is vetoing the bipartisan congressional vote to eliminate the ESG requirement from 401ks. There are so many other fingerprints on the evidence that started for me when Obama was quoted to say that the only way forward was THE liberal global new world order.
I see the Russian invasion of Ukraine as a potential part of this larger well-coordinated and well-funded project by the globalist corporatist cabal having shared interests with China, and with history supporting nations like Iran and opposing nations like Israel, as both a method of media distraction over the larger globalist Great Reset project… while also injecting even more internal political conflict into the American electorate.
I think we took the bait. I think we are already in a global WW and it is 100% Economic in nature. The social woke junk is just a convenient set of well-used collectivist weapons to foment a culture war but only to win the economic war.
The Uniparty is bankrupting the country. We have a growing $1Trillion per year trade deficit. Biden is laughing about opioid deaths. The border is open flooding in millions of poor and uneducated illegal immigrants when we have massive problems taking care of existing Americans. The education system and woke is eliminating our American meritocracy.
Is Putin and the war in Ukraine just another piece of this puzzle? You say American soldiers will need to eventually fight in that war. Well those soldiers will be from the same working-class cohort that the Biden Democrats seem committed to exterminating. And the US involvement in yet another war where our young people will die is sure to add to our political conflict.
I think Putin plays 3D chess, and the assessment of his motivation for Russian expansion through military endeavors, although Crimea appears to be only that, is a bit too checkers.
If the US gets more involved, and even if Russia started to lose and appears to risk being ousted from Ukraine, China and Iran will likely step in. What is positive about that trajectory?
Well said. Full agreement with most of your points ... and with your opener, that Erick's clear writing causes us to look behind the talking points curtain at the real stakes in this conflict.
Our “help” has extended the conflict which has caused billions of dollars in destroyed infrastructure and loss of life on both sides to the order of hundreds of thousands. Sure, let’s “help” more—and “help” Zelensky finish decimating his pseudo country while trying to save it. Loving your logic here. The conflict exists and extends because our leaders want it to.
Russian propaganda.
Great column, Erick. I would add that this “blank check” business is totally misguided. I could write from memory a long list of the available western weapons systems Ukraine desperately needs and has asked for, including fighter jets, longer ranged missiles to hit distant Orc ammo dumps, tanks a year ago, longer ranged UAV’s such as Predators and Gray Eagles that are readily available. There has been no blank check.
Finally, no American in 1939 wanted their sons to die in France, Italy, North Africa, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, over the flak filled skies of Germany, yet 10’s of thousands eventually had to do so.
I still haven't seen or heard a single person who is pro Putin or a Russian propagandist. All I have seen is people wanting accountability for money being sent to a corrupt foreign country and protections for our own borders. I am not fond of this "if you don't agree to send billions to Ukraine, with no accounting for how it is spent, you are pro Putin" argument.
Financial accountability is rarely achieved in war times - heck, in America, we can't even achieve it during peace times. Money and supplies will likely be stolen or wasted. The slow roll that draws out this war longer makes accountability even tougher.
It isn't just during times of War. It is the billions of dollars we spend every year on defense to protect Europe while they invest in Social programs to better the lives of their citizens. Some of us would like them to start paying for their own defense so maybe we can use some of that money back home
Seeing people that question the American instinct to pursue violence and fight global wars being labeled isolationist always bothers me. It is entirely possible to want an engaged foreign policy while also believing the US should play less of a role in global conflict. Having spent 15 years of my life fighting our wars overseas, I would love to see an America that doesn't seem addicted to violence domestically and overseas.
How does blowing up 3 of the 4 Nordstream pipelines fit into this comversation?