As antisemitic riots have rocked dozens of college campuses leading to millions of dollars in damages and over 1,000 arrests, Joe Biden has been silent.
Yet, it sure seems like we are a lot closer to WWIII than anytime that Trump was in office. Iran says they could test nuclear weapon within a week of given the go ahead by their supreme leader... North Korea, Chinese Sabre rattling on a nearly daily basis. Yep, I'm totally impressed by the lifetime statesman, but oddly with the amazingly inept administration of his august skillset.
Yes he can and he must. There is no choice in this matter. Just as there would be none in terrorism against Muslim’s if the shoe was on the other foot. To not denounce is simply cowardice on the part of our President and his administration.
That little speech he gave was no condemnation of anything. He said hate has no place yet theres a lot of it. And it isn't saying anything anti arab. He is pointing at both sides and making him look like a bumbling baffoon that he is. Its funny that he says "We don't live in authoritarian state were we arrest people for free speech..." Uhhh Jan 6? And several other instances of the GOV cracking down on a group for doing nothing more than practicing said free speech.
There are STILL people in Jail for trespassing on Jan 6 that have never received a single indictment or set foot in a courtroom. Rumors that some even got sent to Gitmo.
WE ARE living in Authoritarian state lead by Joe brandon.
You will now hear shockingly little about J6 and Charlottesville going forward. Too many bad comparisons and people are going to focus on what has been done lately.
Will rampant Zionism in Israel, currently using Hamas-driven terrorism as the reason to annihilate or expel the Palestinian people from its historic homeland (remember the fight between the Jewish people and the rest over the land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River has been going on for thousands of years) become the downfall of American democracy?
I've been in LA this week, and on Wednesday, took an Uber ride with a driver born in Cameroon, who had also lived in France for several years before immigrating here. He had just taken a fare to USC, which isn't quite the hotbed that UCLA has been, but nevertheless was on edge. He went off on how spoiled and entitled America's youth are, then made the point that this election might be the make-or-break election for the country.
I told him that I wouldn't debate him no matter which way he leaned, but asked if he would tell me who he planned to vote for. He answered that he would vote for Biden. When I asked him to explain why, he told me that the world fears Trump more, but Biden "understands" how the world works and wouldn't bring us to the brink of a world war. I asked him if it maybe it's necessary that the US is feared in order to deter the evil in the world, then pointed out that during Trump's presidency, there weren't so many potential global conflicts as there are now.
He kept saying how Trump just shoots off his mouth (can't disagree with him) and will do whatever he wants, yet Biden shows statesmanship in how he governs. How? He listens to other leaders, he said. I asked if he was worried about Biden's health and mental abilities. He said he was, but was more worried about how Trump frightened the world.
I didn't try to argue with him, but as someone who doesn't like Trump while still respecting his policies on the world stage, it was enlightening to get insight as to how others act on emotion and not logic. I just hope there are more people that are willing to look at the bigger picture than Trump's obnoxious mouth.
Biden understands how the world works and is not as likely to bring us to the brink of war as Trump. Biden shows statesmanship in how he governs and listens to other leaders whereas Trump frightens the world.
I'm sorry, but how is this not logical? Where is the emotion?
Joe Biden only said anything about this because he watches the polls and was essentially forced to... otherwise, if he was such a statesman, he would have spoken up a lot earlier.
That being said, Joe Biden has given us some of the lowest, most rotten, divisive and hateful political speeches ever written.
Perhaps so, but the point of my comment was simply that even if completely wrong (which I don't believe it to be), the Uber driver's political perspective seems perfectly logical.
I can see how that could be your conclusion, but I guess my written word didn’t translate the emotions in his voice inflections, facial and body gestures very well. In those moments, the anger and contempt attached to his words was all that came across.
I don't know whether this qualifies as "listening" to him, but with the U.S. being the leading member of NATO, new countries joining the alliance suggests that he may be doing something right.
So Erick, Politico is reporting a power sharing agreement between Johnson and the Adams? Seriously? Not what Republicans voted for. Even with a slim majority. This loser Johnson n needs to go along with the rest of the GOP establishment. Let the seems have control. The majority of Americans will see them as responsible for all the garbage that’s happening in campuses and in the cities. Johnson is a sellout, typical of the morons that have been running this country into the ground and selling out the middle class for decades. The day of reckoning is here…
Biden is trying to support American Jews while placating the anti-semites. Since American Jews tend to vote for Democrats (the only reason being "because we always have"), he's gambling that they will continue to do so. Muslim voters aren't so set in who they vote for, and they're abandoning the Dems in droves right now.... which is why he had to throw in the BS about "Islamophobia".
It's the same reason why Gretchen Whitmer hasn't said anything about the antisemitism coming out of Dearborn, nor has she commented on the antisemitic protests going on at a few universities in Michigan (although they are peaceful..... for now).
And just for full disclosure, my rep to congress just happens to be Rashida Tlaib (pity us)..
The man or whoever is running the country would do anything or say anything for votes. He has absolutely no convictions about anything. I'm so embarrassed that he is our president.
His presidential predecessor and rival has no convictions either despite accusations of criminal acts for a half century. And that rival has successfully avoided hundreds of convictions by a willingness to throw his own lawyers under the bus and to pay millions in fines w/o admitting guilt. If I were you, I'd be quite embarrassed by that behavior as well.
As a hard right Texan, I keep on top of what Dem Texas lawmakers are doing. I keep an eye on Henry Cuellar (Dem Congress Texas Border). Unlike most Dems, he is HARD RIGHT when it comes to the Border, and he regularly calls out Biden. Kudos to this Dem.
Today the DOJ “leaked” that they will soon indite the Congressman on something obscure with Azerbaijan.
It took them forever to go after Menendez because he kept in line. But this Congressman, with high likeability, who would get reelected forever, steps out of line and the Dems risk flipping this seat to Republican.
Sometimes some things are so broken that they are beyond repair. For me, one of two things needs to happen here. Either Brandon needs to go, or Texas needs to invoke their right to leave the US per the contract that the Republic of Texas signed with the USA in 1845 when Texas became a state.
No, I don’t think I am whackadoodle when I say this. It is a clear part of Texas history. When we joined, we joined by choice. We signed a contract. We have rights that none of the other 49 states have. Texas owns all the land (the US Government owns very little), which is why we can put up razor wire at the Border and California can’t. We have the right to succeed with a simple majority vote (some say we lost that after the Civil War but it’s never been tested). We have the right to divide into 5 states because at the time they thought Texas was too large to be properly governed.
Then you must not love this country. This (and the supportive comments below) gives the lie to all that flag waving and anthem singing that conservatives so love to do.
The way in which our system has worked for more than 230 years (with one noteworthy exception, of course) is that if one loses an election, you don't pick up your marbles and try to find yourself a new home. Rather, loving one's country whether Democrat or Republican, one undertakes to persuade enough of one's fellow citizens to win the next election and move the country in a better direction. Biden himself may have put it best a few weeks ago when he said, "You can't love your country only when you win."
Speaking as a Democrat, I have long viewed Biden as being in its more moderate wing. That certainly was the case in the last Democratic field of presidential candidates, where he was among the most moderate. But let's, for the sake of argument, say that the conspiracy theories are correct and that he is controlled by the radicals.
How has Biden so changed the country in the last three years - by which I mean how is it so different than it was under Trump - that you want to secede?
1. Stagflation as a direct result of “Bidenomics”.
2. Loss of American sovereignty due to Biden reversing 94 Trump executive orders related to securing the border. Estimates range from 10-15 million illegals have entered into the U.S. since Biden took office. Supporting illegals has put great burden on blacks, hispanics and many of our once great cities.
3. Wars. See Russia-Ukraine. Israel-Hamas (Iran). Biden released funds Trump froze. Instead of the McDonalds franchises Biden envisioned, Iran went out and bought drones they conveniently launched Israel’s way. Not to mentions funds for the October 7th slaughter of Jews.
4. Lack of moral clarity led directly to the anti-demotion we’re seeing on college campuses across the country.
I can go on. Under Trump we had peace and prosperity until China allowed a bio-weapon to be released world-wide. The only chaos we had was generated by a media peddling bogus crises such as Russia Collusion, Taliban Bounty, and an impeachment based on Trump asking Zelensky to look into corruption (see Hunter Biden/Burisma).
Give me a break with your how are things worse? I can go on for an hour but the more I write the more amazed at how out of touch folks like you are. Stay in your bubble. I’m sure the echo of Death to Israel, Death to America will at some point come to your door if we don’t get this inept, corrupt President inhabitant of the WH out pretty quickly. But who knows, maybe what you really want is for America to Die, comrade.
My question was not how things are worse. I asked how have things gotten so much worse under Biden than under Trump that secession would seem like a good idea.
I might dispute some particulars - America's President is far from the only determinant of our economic health and the course of world events - but I can see at least some merit with your first three points. ("Moral clarity?" From the cheating-on-his-wife, "grab-'em-by-the-p*ssy" Donald Trump? Now YOU give ME a break.) That said, I would put a variation of the same question to you:
Which of those things are so bad that you no longer want to be an American?
Fair enough, Neil. I love my country. I would never leave it. Must have missed something in the string. I just want to do what I can to help fix what’s broken and right now there’s quite a bit that needs to be fixed. Biden’s policies have significantly hurt this country. Both party establishments have driven us to the brink of economic insolvency. Things need to change and the first thing that needs to change is the person running the country.
I could not agree more about us being on the brink of insolvency. (In making your earlier points, you missed the chance to smack me right between the eyes with that one.) A ticking time bomb that almost no one seems to hear, it has indeed grown much worse under Biden . . . after having previously grown much worse under Trump.
The course of our country's history has never been an ever-upward-trending line. There have been points when we had poor leadership, and suffered for it. Eventually, however, we have always gotten back on track in building this country into the greatest hope of all humankind. (Consider this: One of our biggest problems is that people will risk their very lives, and the lives of their children, in order to get here. I mean, is that great or what?) Some things may need to change, but not to the point of burning it all down, as Mr. Trump would seem perfectly willing to do, should it happen to be to his advantage.
Before there even was the Constitution - this being in fact its precondition - there was an implicit social compact formed in this country that goes something like this: "If you win the vote, I will respect that and until the next election, your side gets to govern. If I win the vote, you respect it and my side gets to govern." Should this country ever devolve to the point where secession actually starts to make sense, it will be when we stop respecting this implicit understanding. And with that, as Lincoln so well understood, humankind's greatest hope will be lost.
To dispute an election without just cause (and after all legal avenues to contest it are exhausted, there can be no just cause) is an attack on American democracy's very foundation . . . and he just keeps on doing it.
Joe, I don't think there is another regular commenter with whom I disagree more consistently. If we both love this country, then we are yet brothers. Your points have given me something to think about - exposure to uncomfortable truths being the main reason this Democrat is even here following Erickson. I would leave you with just one point (if only I had first made it) where I hope you will do the same:
We can't really love our country, only when we win.
Neil - thanks for the considered response. I do have a question though. What did Trump do during his time in the WH that leads you to believe he would tear it all down? I posit that the chaos was caused by a dishonest media that trumped up things that proved not to be true such as Russia collusion, the Taliban bounty story, the Ukraine corruption comment that led to his impeachment, etc. They attacked him for saying the Covid virus came from a lab - the lab leak now looks to be very much true. Covid did lead to an unprecedented use of mail in ballots which as Carter and Baker’s analysis said could lead to election fraud. Coupled with courts versus state legislature determining election process which was constitutionally outside their purview could and did lead many to believe the election was not on the up and up. And remember in 2000, 2004 and 2016, Democrats in Congress challenged the results of those elections as is their constitutional right. We’re learning now based on various reports that Trump did in fact request National Guard on 1/6 and was turned down by Pelosi and the mayor of DC. We also saw blatant election interference with the throttling of the Hunter Biden laptop story which now both the NYT and WaPo say was not Russian disinformation. 51 intelligence assets lied. So people had a right to be upset because the circumstances in the Covid cloud were highly unusual. Aside from all of that, what did Trump do to threaten democracy? Ask NATO to pay their hair agreed upon share? Work toward peace in the ME be freezing Iranian funds while gorging the Abraham Accords? 1.4% inflation? Best employment number for whites, blacks, Hispanics, women, etc., in U.S. history? A secure border using executive orders to enforce immigration law already on the books? How, exactly, did he threaten democracy???
Weaponization of the DOJ against Catholics, and against soccer moms who don't want their daughters rape in a high school to be covered up, and against the IRS targeting conservatives. I could do this for days but you get my point. The weaponization and the 3 year suppression of free speech stuns me. And when Brandon calls me MAGA as a slur, as he drools and sneers at me and the 70mil Americans who support conservative Judeo Christian values
I know of no IRS targeting of conservatives that has occurred under Biden, and I was about to basically dismiss your points about the "weaponization" of the Department of Justice when I realized that I was about to lie. When it comes to being intensely alienated against one's government and country for the ways in which it is mistreating certain people, I get it.
Back in the days when J. Edgar Hoover was targeting certain of my people's leaders for nothing more than demanding an end to racial segregation and discrimination, I saw little possibility that things would ever change. I was so alienated that I expected to eventually leave the country. But you know what? That would have been a mistake. You see, I underestimated the greatness of this country, as I believe you are doing now.
Every four years, some number of both Democrats and Republicans warn that there is no way that the Republic can survive four years under that other guy . . . and then we do.
I love this country, and I find it a shame that you apparently don't anymore.
Neil, just read this exchange and the one you had with Joe G. I commend you for explaining your position well, with no diatribes, and giving a smidge of credence to Joe’s, and here, Jim’s comments. You are more persuasive when you do this and it allows others to think about your arguments. Also elicits thoughtful responses from others, and in Joe’s thread I learned a lot. So, appreciate your tone in these latest responses as it represents you as a thinking, thoughtful person, not locked in a silo. I try to be aware of my own silo, too.
I always appreciate a healthy exchange of ideas. I object to your characterization of me as un-american. I was raised in NY but now am a Texan who also spends time in Georgia. The difference in governance is stark when you have lived in both. An overbearing Fed encourages local overstepping.
Again Jim, I get it, having fled deep blue Illinois for what I like to call "political asylum" in the State of Indiana. But that doesn't mean I want Indiana to secede.
Yeah but when the integrity of that election is severely compromised by democrats who don't want to invoke something as simple as Voter ID. How can it be trusted? There still has not been an independent audit of any of the votes in the contested states. Its all been smoke and mirrors, get in line and accept. They will say the same thing this year when Trump appears to be ahead in the polls only to see votes come in at 2am from surprising places and it will always be JUST enough. I don't support any state seceding. But Texas does have a right to do so.
That you may seriously be asking this question absolutely flabbergasts me. We may never recover from the damage Biden, or rather who ever is pulling the strings, has done. And we definitely won't if he is allowed to be in the White House again.
Ok, intentionally changing the voter base throughout the country by allowing unlimited foreigners with no vetting, with the racist idea than brown people all vote democrat. 2. using the DOJ as a wing of the DNC attacking conservatives unequally, 3. Exacerbating racial divides to inflict disunion and distrust among Americans, 4. By weakness and fecklessness, allowing our enemies to grow in power to the detriment of the whole world, 4. giving up a position of energy independence, which has strengthened Russia, China, and Iran, 5. inflicting useless sanctions on our enemies pushing those enemies to leave the dollar as a basis of currency, which hurts us, 6. being absolutely clueless on how to use our military forces, getting them killed for optics… 7. Forcing or compelling an experimental vaccine to be shot into every arm in America, every six months, when on the other hand, he says he believes, "Your body, your choice". 8. Attempting to inflict the DNC's version of 'democracy' by using security agencies to police wrong think...they are the fascists they say conservatives are...
Neil, there’s more, but abortion, up to and after birth is all democrats have to offer. They are a fifth column aiding and abetting our enemies. Just horrible.
With eight years instead of just four (actually just three so far), I bet that your list of grievances against Obama would be twice as long. Rather than trying to secede, however, Republicans convinced enough of their fellow citizens that America needed to be made "great again" that they (and Trump) were able to move the country in directions in which I presume that you approve. That said, let me again ask the question that I put to Jim, to which your response above is not completely responsive:
Have all those developments that you listed so changed the country from what it was under Trump that you would want your state to secede?
Every four years, both Democrats and Republicans claim that if they don't win the next election, then all is lost. The point of my question is that it never is. That is, no single administration so screws things up that the greatness of America and its people has not been able to overcome it.
You see, my sense of the upcoming election is that absent the belief that if Trump doesn't win then all is lost, some might not consider it necessary that they support an incessantly lying, adulterous, porn star shtuping, classified document purloining, potentially soon-to-be felon whose administration was the only one in 230+ years of American history that would not surrender power peacefully.
Please don't shut the door until I can gather up my family. The whole southern coast line would make a wonderful country. Should we start with Georgia , go south then west.
One thing to remember is the federal government has reneged on agreements throughout our history and when found out of compliance with such agreements they drag there feet until you finally quit or go broke
Yep. Agreed. BUT the Feds are well aware that Texas is the 8th largest economy in the world. Texas needs ZERO federal dollars. Texas would flourish if the fed regs disappeared. Texas has the equivalent of a standing army. Texans have over 10% of all the weapons in the US. Texas has one of the world's largest oil & Gas fields in the world. Texas has massive refinery capacity. I answer first to God, then to the USA, then to Texas. I might be happy to cut out Brandon. Cheers
Basically what we're seeing in 2024 is 2020 in reverse. But instead of being stuck in a basement, Trump is stuck in a courtroom, and can only hold a few events a week. Meanwhile, Biden is out on the campaign trail, where every appearance makes him look like the cognitively-compromised, physically feeble 81 year-old he is.
The gag order is actually helping Trump, by forcing him to stay more on message, focusing on the economy, the Middle East, immigration, etc.
Aside from his formal rallys, Trump's public appearances seem spontaneous and genuine. His trip to CFA? Simply brillant. Pizza to NYFD? Ditto. Bodega (or "bogeda" as Jill Biden calls them) trip? Stunning.
Biden's choreographed trip to that nearly empty store where he wandered off in search of a milkshake was a complete disaster.
Trump is the greatest 'retail politician' I've seen in my nearly 64 years on this planet.
Adding to your point. LawFare has focused President Trump, which is great.
I am looking forward the that inevitable day where they find him guilty. He will step outside, free from the gag orders, and call for an immediate appeal. The appeal of all Americans who need to vote to throw out the DOJ (from the AG down to the janitor).
Yet, it sure seems like we are a lot closer to WWIII than anytime that Trump was in office. Iran says they could test nuclear weapon within a week of given the go ahead by their supreme leader... North Korea, Chinese Sabre rattling on a nearly daily basis. Yep, I'm totally impressed by the lifetime statesman, but oddly with the amazingly inept administration of his august skillset.
Yes he can and he must. There is no choice in this matter. Just as there would be none in terrorism against Muslim’s if the shoe was on the other foot. To not denounce is simply cowardice on the part of our President and his administration.
That little speech he gave was no condemnation of anything. He said hate has no place yet theres a lot of it. And it isn't saying anything anti arab. He is pointing at both sides and making him look like a bumbling baffoon that he is. Its funny that he says "We don't live in authoritarian state were we arrest people for free speech..." Uhhh Jan 6? And several other instances of the GOV cracking down on a group for doing nothing more than practicing said free speech.
There are STILL people in Jail for trespassing on Jan 6 that have never received a single indictment or set foot in a courtroom. Rumors that some even got sent to Gitmo.
WE ARE living in Authoritarian state lead by Joe brandon.
You will now hear shockingly little about J6 and Charlottesville going forward. Too many bad comparisons and people are going to focus on what has been done lately.
Will rampant Zionism in Israel, currently using Hamas-driven terrorism as the reason to annihilate or expel the Palestinian people from its historic homeland (remember the fight between the Jewish people and the rest over the land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River has been going on for thousands of years) become the downfall of American democracy?
Well, at least he didn't say there are good people on both sides.
No. He said that earlier in the week while getting on a plane.
I've been in LA this week, and on Wednesday, took an Uber ride with a driver born in Cameroon, who had also lived in France for several years before immigrating here. He had just taken a fare to USC, which isn't quite the hotbed that UCLA has been, but nevertheless was on edge. He went off on how spoiled and entitled America's youth are, then made the point that this election might be the make-or-break election for the country.
I told him that I wouldn't debate him no matter which way he leaned, but asked if he would tell me who he planned to vote for. He answered that he would vote for Biden. When I asked him to explain why, he told me that the world fears Trump more, but Biden "understands" how the world works and wouldn't bring us to the brink of a world war. I asked him if it maybe it's necessary that the US is feared in order to deter the evil in the world, then pointed out that during Trump's presidency, there weren't so many potential global conflicts as there are now.
He kept saying how Trump just shoots off his mouth (can't disagree with him) and will do whatever he wants, yet Biden shows statesmanship in how he governs. How? He listens to other leaders, he said. I asked if he was worried about Biden's health and mental abilities. He said he was, but was more worried about how Trump frightened the world.
I didn't try to argue with him, but as someone who doesn't like Trump while still respecting his policies on the world stage, it was enlightening to get insight as to how others act on emotion and not logic. I just hope there are more people that are willing to look at the bigger picture than Trump's obnoxious mouth.
Far too many people vote on emotion rather than logic. That is how we got Biden in the first place.
Biden understands how the world works and is not as likely to bring us to the brink of war as Trump. Biden shows statesmanship in how he governs and listens to other leaders whereas Trump frightens the world.
I'm sorry, but how is this not logical? Where is the emotion?
You've gotta be kidding us all, Neil.
Joe Biden only said anything about this because he watches the polls and was essentially forced to... otherwise, if he was such a statesman, he would have spoken up a lot earlier.
That being said, Joe Biden has given us some of the lowest, most rotten, divisive and hateful political speeches ever written.
Perhaps so, but the point of my comment was simply that even if completely wrong (which I don't believe it to be), the Uber driver's political perspective seems perfectly logical.
I can see how that could be your conclusion, but I guess my written word didn’t translate the emotions in his voice inflections, facial and body gestures very well. In those moments, the anger and contempt attached to his words was all that came across.
I don't know whether this qualifies as "listening" to him, but with the U.S. being the leading member of NATO, new countries joining the alliance suggests that he may be doing something right.
So Erick, Politico is reporting a power sharing agreement between Johnson and the Adams? Seriously? Not what Republicans voted for. Even with a slim majority. This loser Johnson n needs to go along with the rest of the GOP establishment. Let the seems have control. The majority of Americans will see them as responsible for all the garbage that’s happening in campuses and in the cities. Johnson is a sellout, typical of the morons that have been running this country into the ground and selling out the middle class for decades. The day of reckoning is here…
Biden is trying to support American Jews while placating the anti-semites. Since American Jews tend to vote for Democrats (the only reason being "because we always have"), he's gambling that they will continue to do so. Muslim voters aren't so set in who they vote for, and they're abandoning the Dems in droves right now.... which is why he had to throw in the BS about "Islamophobia".
It's the same reason why Gretchen Whitmer hasn't said anything about the antisemitism coming out of Dearborn, nor has she commented on the antisemitic protests going on at a few universities in Michigan (although they are peaceful..... for now).
And just for full disclosure, my rep to congress just happens to be Rashida Tlaib (pity us)..
So, you’re not represented. Same for me in Georgia.
The man or whoever is running the country would do anything or say anything for votes. He has absolutely no convictions about anything. I'm so embarrassed that he is our president.
His presidential predecessor and rival has no convictions either despite accusations of criminal acts for a half century. And that rival has successfully avoided hundreds of convictions by a willingness to throw his own lawyers under the bus and to pay millions in fines w/o admitting guilt. If I were you, I'd be quite embarrassed by that behavior as well.
They Eat Their Own
As a hard right Texan, I keep on top of what Dem Texas lawmakers are doing. I keep an eye on Henry Cuellar (Dem Congress Texas Border). Unlike most Dems, he is HARD RIGHT when it comes to the Border, and he regularly calls out Biden. Kudos to this Dem.
Today the DOJ “leaked” that they will soon indite the Congressman on something obscure with Azerbaijan.
It took them forever to go after Menendez because he kept in line. But this Congressman, with high likeability, who would get reelected forever, steps out of line and the Dems risk flipping this seat to Republican.
Sometimes some things are so broken that they are beyond repair. For me, one of two things needs to happen here. Either Brandon needs to go, or Texas needs to invoke their right to leave the US per the contract that the Republic of Texas signed with the USA in 1845 when Texas became a state.
No, I don’t think I am whackadoodle when I say this. It is a clear part of Texas history. When we joined, we joined by choice. We signed a contract. We have rights that none of the other 49 states have. Texas owns all the land (the US Government owns very little), which is why we can put up razor wire at the Border and California can’t. We have the right to succeed with a simple majority vote (some say we lost that after the Civil War but it’s never been tested). We have the right to divide into 5 states because at the time they thought Texas was too large to be properly governed.
Then you must not love this country. This (and the supportive comments below) gives the lie to all that flag waving and anthem singing that conservatives so love to do.
The way in which our system has worked for more than 230 years (with one noteworthy exception, of course) is that if one loses an election, you don't pick up your marbles and try to find yourself a new home. Rather, loving one's country whether Democrat or Republican, one undertakes to persuade enough of one's fellow citizens to win the next election and move the country in a better direction. Biden himself may have put it best a few weeks ago when he said, "You can't love your country only when you win."
Speaking as a Democrat, I have long viewed Biden as being in its more moderate wing. That certainly was the case in the last Democratic field of presidential candidates, where he was among the most moderate. But let's, for the sake of argument, say that the conspiracy theories are correct and that he is controlled by the radicals.
How has Biden so changed the country in the last three years - by which I mean how is it so different than it was under Trump - that you want to secede?
Are you serious? How is it different?
1. Stagflation as a direct result of “Bidenomics”.
2. Loss of American sovereignty due to Biden reversing 94 Trump executive orders related to securing the border. Estimates range from 10-15 million illegals have entered into the U.S. since Biden took office. Supporting illegals has put great burden on blacks, hispanics and many of our once great cities.
3. Wars. See Russia-Ukraine. Israel-Hamas (Iran). Biden released funds Trump froze. Instead of the McDonalds franchises Biden envisioned, Iran went out and bought drones they conveniently launched Israel’s way. Not to mentions funds for the October 7th slaughter of Jews.
4. Lack of moral clarity led directly to the anti-demotion we’re seeing on college campuses across the country.
I can go on. Under Trump we had peace and prosperity until China allowed a bio-weapon to be released world-wide. The only chaos we had was generated by a media peddling bogus crises such as Russia Collusion, Taliban Bounty, and an impeachment based on Trump asking Zelensky to look into corruption (see Hunter Biden/Burisma).
Give me a break with your how are things worse? I can go on for an hour but the more I write the more amazed at how out of touch folks like you are. Stay in your bubble. I’m sure the echo of Death to Israel, Death to America will at some point come to your door if we don’t get this inept, corrupt President inhabitant of the WH out pretty quickly. But who knows, maybe what you really want is for America to Die, comrade.
My question was not how things are worse. I asked how have things gotten so much worse under Biden than under Trump that secession would seem like a good idea.
I might dispute some particulars - America's President is far from the only determinant of our economic health and the course of world events - but I can see at least some merit with your first three points. ("Moral clarity?" From the cheating-on-his-wife, "grab-'em-by-the-p*ssy" Donald Trump? Now YOU give ME a break.) That said, I would put a variation of the same question to you:
Which of those things are so bad that you no longer want to be an American?
Fair enough, Neil. I love my country. I would never leave it. Must have missed something in the string. I just want to do what I can to help fix what’s broken and right now there’s quite a bit that needs to be fixed. Biden’s policies have significantly hurt this country. Both party establishments have driven us to the brink of economic insolvency. Things need to change and the first thing that needs to change is the person running the country.
I could not agree more about us being on the brink of insolvency. (In making your earlier points, you missed the chance to smack me right between the eyes with that one.) A ticking time bomb that almost no one seems to hear, it has indeed grown much worse under Biden . . . after having previously grown much worse under Trump.
The course of our country's history has never been an ever-upward-trending line. There have been points when we had poor leadership, and suffered for it. Eventually, however, we have always gotten back on track in building this country into the greatest hope of all humankind. (Consider this: One of our biggest problems is that people will risk their very lives, and the lives of their children, in order to get here. I mean, is that great or what?) Some things may need to change, but not to the point of burning it all down, as Mr. Trump would seem perfectly willing to do, should it happen to be to his advantage.
Before there even was the Constitution - this being in fact its precondition - there was an implicit social compact formed in this country that goes something like this: "If you win the vote, I will respect that and until the next election, your side gets to govern. If I win the vote, you respect it and my side gets to govern." Should this country ever devolve to the point where secession actually starts to make sense, it will be when we stop respecting this implicit understanding. And with that, as Lincoln so well understood, humankind's greatest hope will be lost.
To dispute an election without just cause (and after all legal avenues to contest it are exhausted, there can be no just cause) is an attack on American democracy's very foundation . . . and he just keeps on doing it.
Joe, I don't think there is another regular commenter with whom I disagree more consistently. If we both love this country, then we are yet brothers. Your points have given me something to think about - exposure to uncomfortable truths being the main reason this Democrat is even here following Erickson. I would leave you with just one point (if only I had first made it) where I hope you will do the same:
We can't really love our country, only when we win.
Neil - thanks for the considered response. I do have a question though. What did Trump do during his time in the WH that leads you to believe he would tear it all down? I posit that the chaos was caused by a dishonest media that trumped up things that proved not to be true such as Russia collusion, the Taliban bounty story, the Ukraine corruption comment that led to his impeachment, etc. They attacked him for saying the Covid virus came from a lab - the lab leak now looks to be very much true. Covid did lead to an unprecedented use of mail in ballots which as Carter and Baker’s analysis said could lead to election fraud. Coupled with courts versus state legislature determining election process which was constitutionally outside their purview could and did lead many to believe the election was not on the up and up. And remember in 2000, 2004 and 2016, Democrats in Congress challenged the results of those elections as is their constitutional right. We’re learning now based on various reports that Trump did in fact request National Guard on 1/6 and was turned down by Pelosi and the mayor of DC. We also saw blatant election interference with the throttling of the Hunter Biden laptop story which now both the NYT and WaPo say was not Russian disinformation. 51 intelligence assets lied. So people had a right to be upset because the circumstances in the Covid cloud were highly unusual. Aside from all of that, what did Trump do to threaten democracy? Ask NATO to pay their hair agreed upon share? Work toward peace in the ME be freezing Iranian funds while gorging the Abraham Accords? 1.4% inflation? Best employment number for whites, blacks, Hispanics, women, etc., in U.S. history? A secure border using executive orders to enforce immigration law already on the books? How, exactly, did he threaten democracy???
Weaponization of the DOJ against Catholics, and against soccer moms who don't want their daughters rape in a high school to be covered up, and against the IRS targeting conservatives. I could do this for days but you get my point. The weaponization and the 3 year suppression of free speech stuns me. And when Brandon calls me MAGA as a slur, as he drools and sneers at me and the 70mil Americans who support conservative Judeo Christian values
I know of no IRS targeting of conservatives that has occurred under Biden, and I was about to basically dismiss your points about the "weaponization" of the Department of Justice when I realized that I was about to lie. When it comes to being intensely alienated against one's government and country for the ways in which it is mistreating certain people, I get it.
Back in the days when J. Edgar Hoover was targeting certain of my people's leaders for nothing more than demanding an end to racial segregation and discrimination, I saw little possibility that things would ever change. I was so alienated that I expected to eventually leave the country. But you know what? That would have been a mistake. You see, I underestimated the greatness of this country, as I believe you are doing now.
Every four years, some number of both Democrats and Republicans warn that there is no way that the Republic can survive four years under that other guy . . . and then we do.
I love this country, and I find it a shame that you apparently don't anymore.
Neil, just read this exchange and the one you had with Joe G. I commend you for explaining your position well, with no diatribes, and giving a smidge of credence to Joe’s, and here, Jim’s comments. You are more persuasive when you do this and it allows others to think about your arguments. Also elicits thoughtful responses from others, and in Joe’s thread I learned a lot. So, appreciate your tone in these latest responses as it represents you as a thinking, thoughtful person, not locked in a silo. I try to be aware of my own silo, too.
I always appreciate a healthy exchange of ideas. I object to your characterization of me as un-american. I was raised in NY but now am a Texan who also spends time in Georgia. The difference in governance is stark when you have lived in both. An overbearing Fed encourages local overstepping.
Again Jim, I get it, having fled deep blue Illinois for what I like to call "political asylum" in the State of Indiana. But that doesn't mean I want Indiana to secede.
Yeah but when the integrity of that election is severely compromised by democrats who don't want to invoke something as simple as Voter ID. How can it be trusted? There still has not been an independent audit of any of the votes in the contested states. Its all been smoke and mirrors, get in line and accept. They will say the same thing this year when Trump appears to be ahead in the polls only to see votes come in at 2am from surprising places and it will always be JUST enough. I don't support any state seceding. But Texas does have a right to do so.
That you may seriously be asking this question absolutely flabbergasts me. We may never recover from the damage Biden, or rather who ever is pulling the strings, has done. And we definitely won't if he is allowed to be in the White House again.
So answer it.
Ok, intentionally changing the voter base throughout the country by allowing unlimited foreigners with no vetting, with the racist idea than brown people all vote democrat. 2. using the DOJ as a wing of the DNC attacking conservatives unequally, 3. Exacerbating racial divides to inflict disunion and distrust among Americans, 4. By weakness and fecklessness, allowing our enemies to grow in power to the detriment of the whole world, 4. giving up a position of energy independence, which has strengthened Russia, China, and Iran, 5. inflicting useless sanctions on our enemies pushing those enemies to leave the dollar as a basis of currency, which hurts us, 6. being absolutely clueless on how to use our military forces, getting them killed for optics… 7. Forcing or compelling an experimental vaccine to be shot into every arm in America, every six months, when on the other hand, he says he believes, "Your body, your choice". 8. Attempting to inflict the DNC's version of 'democracy' by using security agencies to police wrong think...they are the fascists they say conservatives are...
Neil, there’s more, but abortion, up to and after birth is all democrats have to offer. They are a fifth column aiding and abetting our enemies. Just horrible.
With eight years instead of just four (actually just three so far), I bet that your list of grievances against Obama would be twice as long. Rather than trying to secede, however, Republicans convinced enough of their fellow citizens that America needed to be made "great again" that they (and Trump) were able to move the country in directions in which I presume that you approve. That said, let me again ask the question that I put to Jim, to which your response above is not completely responsive:
Have all those developments that you listed so changed the country from what it was under Trump that you would want your state to secede?
Every four years, both Democrats and Republicans claim that if they don't win the next election, then all is lost. The point of my question is that it never is. That is, no single administration so screws things up that the greatness of America and its people has not been able to overcome it.
You see, my sense of the upcoming election is that absent the belief that if Trump doesn't win then all is lost, some might not consider it necessary that they support an incessantly lying, adulterous, porn star shtuping, classified document purloining, potentially soon-to-be felon whose administration was the only one in 230+ years of American history that would not surrender power peacefully.
That pretty much sums up the last 3 1/2 years. So why can't the rest of the country see this?
Were Nikki Haley the Republican nominee, they just might.
Pickled brains listening to ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN, PBS, and reading papers like WaPo and the NYT. State media.
Love the idea.
Please don't shut the door until I can gather up my family. The whole southern coast line would make a wonderful country. Should we start with Georgia , go south then west.
Just think. We'll have Greg Abbott, DeSantis and Brian Kemp for starters. All OK in my book.
I split my time between Texas and Georgia so I absolutely love my Georgia neighborhood.
One thing to remember is the federal government has reneged on agreements throughout our history and when found out of compliance with such agreements they drag there feet until you finally quit or go broke
Yep. Agreed. BUT the Feds are well aware that Texas is the 8th largest economy in the world. Texas needs ZERO federal dollars. Texas would flourish if the fed regs disappeared. Texas has the equivalent of a standing army. Texans have over 10% of all the weapons in the US. Texas has one of the world's largest oil & Gas fields in the world. Texas has massive refinery capacity. I answer first to God, then to the USA, then to Texas. I might be happy to cut out Brandon. Cheers
Ragheads have no place in the USA.
Real simple. Biden is controlled by radicals. He needs to go. The radicals need to be gutted from our government. Real simple.
Joe, I invite you to read my response to Neil and add on. I’m amazed at democrats being so, incredibly, blind.
I’ll take a look. This time I’ll try to be nice.
Hah!
Done but not sure everything got captured.
Whoa…you want to run for office?
You never know.
In order for Joey from Scranton to actually denounce anything he would have to grow a spine,something he has lacked for his whole life.
Basically what we're seeing in 2024 is 2020 in reverse. But instead of being stuck in a basement, Trump is stuck in a courtroom, and can only hold a few events a week. Meanwhile, Biden is out on the campaign trail, where every appearance makes him look like the cognitively-compromised, physically feeble 81 year-old he is.
The gag order is actually helping Trump, by forcing him to stay more on message, focusing on the economy, the Middle East, immigration, etc.
Aside from his formal rallys, Trump's public appearances seem spontaneous and genuine. His trip to CFA? Simply brillant. Pizza to NYFD? Ditto. Bodega (or "bogeda" as Jill Biden calls them) trip? Stunning.
Biden's choreographed trip to that nearly empty store where he wandered off in search of a milkshake was a complete disaster.
Trump is the greatest 'retail politician' I've seen in my nearly 64 years on this planet.
Adding to your point. LawFare has focused President Trump, which is great.
I am looking forward the that inevitable day where they find him guilty. He will step outside, free from the gag orders, and call for an immediate appeal. The appeal of all Americans who need to vote to throw out the DOJ (from the AG down to the janitor).
VOTE. VOTE. VOTE EARLY. VOTE
Great op ed in today’s WSJ on this very topic by Kim Strassel. https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-fails-the-campus-test-anti-israel-protesters-859c0ca6?st=zb5ogudo8uf3t3m&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink